Windows experience is atrocious (page 3)

On 7/20/2023 7:54 PM, harakim wrote: > source\arsd\simpledisplay.d(6445,51): Deprecation: using `in ref` is deprecated, use `-preview=in` and `in` instead > ... > Oh, D... *smile and sigh* Going to revisit this: https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/15443

July 22, 2023

Re: Windows experience is atrocious

Posted by Steven Schveighoffer
in reply to Rumbu

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Steven Schveighoffer

Posted in reply to Rumbu

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On 7/20/23 12:22 PM, Rumbu wrote:

Long time D user here (from D1 era). I said to come back after two years to see how things evolved in the meantime.

Here is my Windows experience:

I think you suffer from having already-installed D stuff, or some unique environment that the installer is tripping on. Probably some bug that can be filed there. Installing from scratch is usually easier.

However, I do agree that the Windows experience (especially including an IDE) could be more curated.

Here was my instructions for installing DMD/VSCode on Windows that I used for my homeschool class: https://codingcat.club/d_installation.html

I wish it was just "run this exe". to be fair, the DMD installer now asks you to install some version of Visual Studio, and I think even can work without it (wasn't true back when I wrote the instructions).

OK, I know, there is VisualD, but install process is still complicated.

VisualD means you are willing to switch to that build system and not use dub. I've never used it because of that.

VSCode with code-d is a pretty good experience (except for debugging on Windows).

-Steve

On Saturday, 22 July 2023 at 01:23:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > On 7/20/2023 7:54 PM, harakim wrote: >> source\arsd\simpledisplay.d(6445,51): Deprecation: using `in ref` is deprecated, use `-preview=in` and `in` instead >> ... >> Oh, D... *smile and sigh* > > Going to revisit this: > > https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/15443 *sigh*

On 7/23/2023 2:12 AM, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: > On Saturday, 22 July 2023 at 01:23:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: >> Going to revisit this: >> >> https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/15443 > > *sigh* ??

On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 01:01:58 UTC, bachmeier wrote: > On Saturday, 22 July 2023 at 15:29:45 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: > >> I think even can work without it (wasn't true back when I wrote the instructions). > > If true, that would be a good step forward. My memories of installing on Windows involved a petabyte of Visual Studio downloads followed by configuration issues that I didn't know or care to know how to fix. dmd on Windows has never required Visual Studio, though the installer would really push you toward it since it was better for a while - more compatible 32 bit with other libraries and 64 bit linking support - but you didn't technically NEED those, and both of these are now supported by the bundle standing alone. If you just take the dmd zip and use it in place, things just work.

On Sunday, 23 July 2023 at 17:14:39 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > On 7/23/2023 2:12 AM, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: >> On Saturday, 22 July 2023 at 01:23:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: >>> Going to revisit this: >>> >>> https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/15443 >> >> *sigh* > > ?? You know, I'm in the "deprecate and clean-up the language" camp since forever ...

On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 18:43:02 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > On 7/24/2023 12:22 AM, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: >> You know, I'm in the "deprecate and clean-up the language" camp since forever ... > > I am, too, but it clearly does not work for us. Don't mistake the destination with the method of getting there e.g. a few deprecations aren't actually stopping people from using D, it's just discouraging having a violent torrent of dip1000 deprecations which would (for us) require days or weeks of engineering-time to get around (if even possible) because the underlying model just isn't able to express the patterns that make D productive (as opposed to merely expressive). For deprecations that are either syntactic or a direct substitution, the compiler should just fix it for you - clang and gcc (to a lesser extent) can both do this, e.g. the body=>do change - regardless of the justification the compiler should just parse it and fix it (or emit a diff, etc etc).

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