On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 06:50:01 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
> On 12/06/2015 6:45 p.m., Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> On 06/12/2015 12:51 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>>>
>>> The cost is really minimal if you are serious. A Mac Mini costs $500
>>> new, and you get Xcode free.
>>>
>>
>> The last two computers I bought were about $340 each. And those are
>> laptops, with screen and battery and everything.
>>
>
> In New Zealand a fully upgraded top of the line model (the kind you get from Apply directly) is ~ $4000.

Hm, in Norway the 12core version fully upgraded is 11354USD without a screen… Are you sure you looked at Mac Pro?

> Mac Mini ~$1000.

I get 695USD with no keyboard for 2 cores@1.4Ghz.

A 3Ghz mac mini/16GB RAM/256GB SSD  is 1775USD and still only *2* cores?

I'd rather buy a used 4-core mac mini or go Linux.

On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 08:43:39 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 06:50:01 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
>> On 12/06/2015 6:45 p.m., Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> On 06/12/2015 12:51 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The cost is really minimal if you are serious. A Mac Mini costs $500
>>>> new, and you get Xcode free.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The last two computers I bought were about $340 each. And those are
>>> laptops, with screen and battery and everything.
>>>
>>
>> In New Zealand a fully upgraded top of the line model (the kind you get from Apply directly) is ~ $4000.
>
> Hm, in Norway the 12core version fully upgraded is 11354USD without a screen… Are you sure you looked at Mac Pro?
>
>> Mac Mini ~$1000.
>
> I get 695USD with no keyboard for 2 cores@1.4Ghz.
>
> A 3Ghz mac mini/16GB RAM/256GB SSD  is 1775USD and still only *2* cores?
>
> I'd rather buy a used 4-core mac mini or go Linux.

even in USA their prices are ridiculous

for example, the $999 hidpi monitor they sell on their site? you can buy the same exact monitor for ~$250 on ebay directly from the korean manufacturer. I own one, it looks identical to the apple one.

On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 07:57:27 UTC, Adrian Matoga wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 07:36:51 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
>> The minimum wage in Portugal is around 400€ after taxes, with around 1000€ for many university degrees.
>>
>> You can guess how many go out and buy a Mac.
>>
>> --
>> Paulo
>
> I remember I saw almost every student at IST with a Mac, and
> when everyone started to talk about the crisis, people were like
> "uhm, well, we can't now afford to replace our Macs with new ones
> every year, only every other year maybe".

IST is one of the best  universities  in the country.

The majority  of the students are from middle, upper, claases. Although  there are also exceptions, of course.

Also many that do buy one, do so with a 3 -5 year long leasing.

On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 08:46:19 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 08:43:39 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
>> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 06:50:01 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> Hm, in Norway the 12core version fully upgraded is 11354USD without a screen… Are you sure you looked at Mac Pro?
>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> I get 695USD with no keyboard for 2 cores@1.4Ghz.
>>
>> A 3Ghz mac mini/16GB RAM/256GB SSD  is 1775USD and still only *2* cores?
>>
>> I'd rather buy a used 4-core mac mini or go Linux.
>
> even in USA their prices are ridiculous
>
> for example, the $999 hidpi monitor they sell on their site? you can buy the same exact monitor for ~$250 on ebay directly from the korean manufacturer. I own one, it looks identical to the apple one.

Funnily enough, I bought my macbook pro because it was significantly cheaper than anything comparable the competition had to offer.

On 12/06/2015 8:43 p.m., "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= <ola.fosheim.grostad+dlang@gmail.com>" wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 06:50:01 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
>> On 12/06/2015 6:45 p.m., Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> On 06/12/2015 12:51 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The cost is really minimal if you are serious. A Mac Mini costs $500
>>>> new, and you get Xcode free.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The last two computers I bought were about $340 each. And those are
>>> laptops, with screen and battery and everything.
>>>
>>
>> In New Zealand a fully upgraded top of the line model (the kind you
>> get from Apply directly) is ~ $4000.
>
> Hm, in Norway the 12core version fully upgraded is 11354USD without a
> screen… Are you sure you looked at Mac Pro?

My bad, Mac Book Pro. Very similar name.

>> Mac Mini ~$1000.
>
> I get 695USD with no keyboard for 2 cores@1.4Ghz.
>
> A 3Ghz mac mini/16GB RAM/256GB SSD  is 1775USD and still only *2* cores?
>
> I'd rather buy a used 4-core mac mini or go Linux.
>

On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 08:46:19 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
> for example, the $999 hidpi monitor they sell on their site? you can buy the same exact monitor for ~$250 on ebay directly from the korean manufacturer. I own one, it looks identical to the apple one.

I'm not surprised! I bet they saw too many developers buying 4-core minis and no screen and thought:  "hey, let's force devs to buy our 4-core iMacs, then we get to sell a screen too!". And I have to admit, if I _had_ to buy an iMac I'd be tempted to consider the retina version.

But I think I'll just pass on an upgrade and make my next machine a 6+ core Linux box with a clang cross compiler and shared filesystem. I don't really mind using makefiles that much.

On 6/12/15 3:36 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 04:51:29 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>> On 6/11/15 11:47 PM, Joakim wrote:
>>> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 02:13:26 UTC, Dan Olson wrote:
>>>> Looks like there is no membership fee to build and install your own
>>>> iOS apps with Xcode now.  As usual, you still need a Mac to run Xcode.
>>>>
>>>> http://9to5mac.com/2015/06/10/xcode-7-allows-anyone-to-download-build-and-sideload-ios-apps-for-free/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Huh, that's crazy that they don't make the iOS toolchain available
>>> outside OS X.  The Android toolchain is available for all three major
>>> desktop platforms.  Still, good that at least you don't have to pay now.
>>
>> You can develop for iOS on other platforms (I think not using
>> objective-c or swift), but you cannot submit an app to the app store
>> without Xcode.
>>
>> Really, I don't see why Apple needs to care about other platforms --
>> it's their toolchain, their runtime. This makes things very easy for
>> them support-wise, and people still line up to get iPhones, so the
>> incentive to support other platforms isn't really there.
>>
>> At dconf, I'd say at least 50% of the laptops were macs. They are good
>> systems to use.
>>
>> The cost is really minimal if you are serious. A Mac Mini costs $500
>> new, and you get Xcode free.
>>
>
> The minimum wage in Portugal is around 400€ after taxes, with around
> 1000€ for many university degrees.
>
> You can guess how many go out and buy a Mac.


Those who are serious and willing to invest will buy one. I bought my macbook in 2011 for about $1800, I've made more than 50x that with it since doing iOS work.

If you want to make minimum wage, I can guess you shouldn't buy a mac :)

-Steve

On 6/12/15 1:00 AM, Mattcoder wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 04:51:29 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>> The cost is really minimal if you are serious. A Mac Mini costs $500
>> new, and you get Xcode free.
>
> I don't want to be that guy but living in Brazil that Mac Mini
> (Yosemite) costs 6x more in here. I mean it can be more cheap to travel
> to U.S. and buy one there and go back than buying directly in here.

That a pretty steep hike, I wonder why it's so much more expensive!

-Steve

On 6/12/15 2:45 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On 06/12/2015 12:51 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>>
>> The cost is really minimal if you are serious. A Mac Mini costs $500
>> new, and you get Xcode free.
>>
>
> The last two computers I bought were about $340 each. And those are
> laptops, with screen and battery and everything.
>

If the cost of the computer you are using is *that* important to you, you aren't serious about investing what it takes to get the tools you need. That was part of my point.

If you're telling me it's not worth an extra $160 to work on iOS, I think you probably have other objections besides that. It's OK, iOS development is not everyone's cup of tea.

-Steve

On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 11:58:35 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> Those who are serious and willing to invest will buy one. I bought my macbook in 2011 for about $1800, I've made more than 50x that with it since doing iOS work.

You don't find it odd that my 2012 mac mini is faster than similarly priced macs today?

What kind of apps do you make, it would be fun to have a look at them :)