yigal chripun wrote:
> blocking bugs that affect tango for D2,

Please let me know the Bugzilla numbers for these.

yigal chripun wrote:
> Either you need to have a plan or you need to have a community driven process (Java JSRs, Python PEPs). 

There is a similar option for D, although it doesn't have a fancy abbreviation: You can put enhancement requests in Bugzilla and get people to vote for them.

-Lars

Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 01, 2009 at 01:21:58PM -0400, yigal chripun wrote:
>> the lack of proper planning relates to everything:
> 
> I think D has proper planning. It has a unified guiding vision with Walter
> Bright and Andrei Alexandrescu. And they discuss it in blogs and on this
> newsgroup, which usually gets worthless replies.
> 
> Their vision is why Phobos 2 is coming together and why D isn't being
> bloated with every useless feature mentioned in this group.


Hear, hear!

-Lars

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Walter Bright<newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>
>> I know _Walter_ had a license-related reason for deliberately not looking at Tango.
>
> Tango is under the BSD license, which requires attribution in binaries for linking with it. This is what the license says, regardless of how it is interpreted. I don't feel that can be ignored.
>
> The problem with me looking at it and then contributing to Phobos is that I can be accused of violating the BSD license. They are so similar it is almost impossible for there not be some sort of taint like that. I've been developing software for 30 years now, and I've found that the best defense against such accusations is to never look at them. (And yes, I've been grilled by lawyers.) It's the same reason I never look at gcc source code.
>
> I have asked the Tango team for a specific reciprocal cross-licensing agreement from Tango to Phobos (I have provided one so that Tango can incorporate whatever they want from Phobos). The only ones willing to do so were Sean and Don who have incorporated their Tango contributions into Phobos and relicensed them.
>
> Sean looked around for a new license for druntime, and settled on using the Boost license which doesn't have the BSD problems and is designed for maximum utility for any purpose one may want to use it for.
>
> Sean's druntime project is intended to be the core library that both Phobos and Tango can be built upon. It is based on Tango's core that Sean had written. Phobos was changed to work with it.
>
> I've fixed the bugs identified to me as blocking Tango from working with D2.
>
> If there's more I can do to make this work, I would like to know what that is.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was accusing you.  I think you may have taken my quote out of context.

> > Andrei had some reason (license-related, IIRC) for deliberately not looking
> > at Tango at all. Maybe that's the license issue being referred to? (I'm
> > about as in-the-dark about it as you.)
>
> I know _Walter_ had a license-related reason for deliberately not looking at Tango.

I knew that _you_ had said previously that you wouldn't look at Tango due to licensing, but I had never heard anything about Andrei.

Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>> Andrei had some reason (license-related, IIRC) for deliberately not looking
>>> at Tango at all. Maybe that's the license issue being referred to? (I'm
>>> about as in-the-dark about it as you.)
>> I know _Walter_ had a license-related reason for deliberately not
>> looking at Tango.
> 
> I knew that _you_ had said previously that you wouldn't look at Tango
> due to licensing, but I had never heard anything about Andrei.

Same for me.

Andrei

== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1@digitalmars.com)'s article
> Sean looked around for a new license for druntime, and settled on using the Boost license which doesn't have the BSD problems and is designed for maximum utility for any purpose one may want to use it for.

I'd like to point out that everyone agreed to distribute Phobos2 under the Boost license as well.  I said I'd take care of the source code comments and such, and then I dropped the ball.  Hopefully this will serve as a reminder for me to take care of it :-p

Walter Bright Wrote:

> Kagamin wrote:
> > If I recall it right there are bugs blocking tango port.
> 
> I've fixed all the bugs identified by the Tango team as blocking Tango2. If there are more, please give me the bugzilla numbers.

I may have an outdated info, I don't track the subject.

在 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:36:16 +0800，Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> 写道:

> yigal chripun wrote:
>> blocking bugs that affect tango for D2,
>
> Please let me know the Bugzilla numbers for these.

http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3071 //i'm not sure if this affects tango, i can't quite remember how i updated tango d2 branch in my own box.
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3075
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3125


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Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:

> yigal chripun wrote:
> > Either you need to have a plan or you need to have a community driven process (Java JSRs, Python PEPs).
> 
> There is a similar option for D, although it doesn't have a fancy abbreviation: You can put enhancement requests in Bugzilla and get people to vote for them.
> 
> -Lars

you must be kidding right? maybe the situation is improving lately but not that long ago I remember posts by downs where he pointed out an old bug in DMD with a patch to fix that bug already in Bugzilla and that fix was in bugzila several *years* without anyone caring.

there is no reviewing mechanism in place - so if Walter has no time to review patches they will not be incorporated. There is no planning regarding timeing and mile stones, nowhere can you find out what will be implemented when and by whom, nowhere can you see the test plan, the review plan, etc.

compare a very successful project like firefox where everything is planned ahead and timed (what feature will be in what release and so forth) with Debian where if they're lucky they have two releases in a decade and even Debian with the faumous "we will release when the software is ready" has a release plan!

for D this means that the released compiler can have blocking bugs for major D libraries (tango, dwt, etc..) . that means, no one knows ahead of time what language features a release will contain and how will that affect the code. sometimes even *after* the release you don't know that since sometimes walter forgets to mention some new feature he implemented.

there are free tools available for all of that and nothing has to be done manually, no matter how high your requirments are. Google for example has a review system for its Android code base.

davidl wrote:
> ÔÚ Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:36:16 +0800£¬Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> дµÀ:
> 
>> yigal chripun wrote:
>>> blocking bugs that affect tango for D2,
>>
>> Please let me know the Bugzilla numbers for these.
> 
> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3071 //i'm not sure if this affects tango, i can't quite remember how i updated tango d2 branch in my own box.
> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3075
> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3125
> 
> 

Thanks.