On Tue, 2016-06-07 at 00:07 +0200, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars- d wrote:
> […]
> 
> We will share things as soon as we have something worth sharing.

Why not release early, release often?

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 16:10 +0000, bob belcher via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> […]
> 
> why not a poll, and ask the community that they want first.
> - tiny web library from vibe.d will not be complicated
> - improve documentation, the same
> - tour.dlang.io improvements
> - make an editor work properly on all platforms YES
> - weekly tutorials. (that will be 30 until the end of year)
> - more noise on how to use proper dlang. dfmd, dub, dscanner.
> - make the website much friendly. Hire some freelancers and make
> the website nice!

Polls are all very nice as input to creating plans and furthering
discussion. But unless someone actually does something so as to create
stuff then it is a waste of time.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 at 08:05:58 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 16:56 +0000, Wyatt via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> [...]
>
> So instead of debating this endlessly, I think this is about the tenth time this has come up in the last two years, why doesn't a group of people who know about GC algorithms get together and write a new one?
>
> Java has had a large number of GCs over the years: new knowledge, new algorithms, new implementation lead to better performance.
>
> Go has had at least three GCs as new knowledge, new algorithms, new implementation lead to better performance.
>
> D has had lots of discussion on email lists but no-one has followed this up with actually doing something that resulted in a change.

support.
Why not write a new GC to replace the simple and old GC.

On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 18:03 +0000, Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars- d wrote:
> 
[…]
> GC in Go is not an issue, because in Go the concurrent GC is basically what it has to offer in addition to builtin decent HTTP and cloud-server adoption.

That is the current state after 7 years of development, and at least three GCs. The arguments about GCs in the Go mailing list were almost similar to those in these D mailing lists. The crucial difference the full time Go developers did something. D appears to not have that rather  crucial resource.

> GC is Go would have been a big big issue if Go was not designed for it or tried to present itself as a system level programming language.

Go was always, and always will be a GC language, very true. However it is, and always has been, emphasized as a systems programming language. Their "strap line" is effectively that GC is not a problem for systems programming. And they are right. Which is why D has no problem with being a GC language.

> For performance you would still not use Go, you would use either C++ or Rust. But few servers in the cloud need those extra 20%.

Go has blossomed due to the Web niche but it is used elsewhere. If C++ and Rust can only offer 20% improvement they are dead in the water. I am sure that by appropriate adjustment to the number of processors a well designed Go program can go far faster that 20% faster. The CSP emphasis of Go application design is a wonderful thing. Now I can use Kotlin+Quasar as well as Groovy+GPars to push this same message. Sadly D doesn't yet have an equivalent so therefore has a problem.

I would love to create a CSP thing for D but I cannot give the time to do this on my own.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 at 09:03:15 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> As a counter-point to the "downer" on financial institutions and contributing back, it perhaps should be noted that Goldman Sachs did release their Java data structures framework as FOSS, but I think it hasn't gained much traction. Also there is Jane Street Capital's contributions to OCaml.

I think big corporations releasing internal frameworks doesn't add much in general. They often "change the language" by requiring programmers to adapt a specific paradigm on a very basic level that has been aggregated over time. Even Qt and moc has such issues.

Internal libraries can sometimes be reworked to something more general, but frameworks are usually a waste of time if it has not been used by a very large number of projects while being developed.

> Python has a number of organizations contributing to Python and library development who get their income by training or consulting to financial institutions.

*nods*

So you basically need very large scale adoption before you get the benefits. Which kind of makes it irrelevant in this context, where the goal is to gain traction.

On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 14:25 -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> 
[…]
> My personal pet peeve are junior programmers who think they get it,
> find some
> perverted corner case in the language, and build their entire
> application around
> that. They confuse their mastery of the corner case with competence.
[…]

I found some nice features of FORTRAN in 1975 and proceeded to do all my FORTRAN programming in abstract-data-type style (a few years later this might have been labelled "object oriented"). Wholly inappropriate for FORTRAN obviously.

I think many of the same techniques are still being used in JavaScript programming.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Tue, 2016-06-07 at 09:00 +0000, Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> […]
> 
> I only know a certain portion of that world, but for example Jane
> Street has done quite a lot for Ocaml, Bloomberg has released
> some useful things including for languages, Morgan Stanley has
> supported Scala, I have supported in a small way some things for
> D and will be releasing a working Bloomberg API soon.  Don't look
> for innovation to come from the banks because they have had other
> things to deal with, but even there there is the beginning of a
> broader change in mindset.

Jane Street are indeed well-known and well-renowned for their work with OCaml. It works for them but remains a small niche with little traction.

Bloomberg actually do a significant amount of indirect give-back for C++ and a little for Java: they do a lot of sponsoring of C++ events and have staff on standards committees. We at ACCUConf like Bloomberg.

I haven't been aware of Scala give-back from Morgan Stanley, I shall hunt it out. The organizations I know using Scala generally stay pretty quiet about it other than they are using it. Ditto for Python.

> Finance is just one more industry, but it's quite a pragmatic one and still has a decent share of global IT spending.

I have made quite a lot of my income over the last 7 years from finance industry, commercial banking and hedge funds, I am not complaining. :-) 
-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 at 09:05:10 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> Generally I would agree. However with something like "big decimal" I'd say it is worth doing anyway – even though the impetus appears to be from financial computing.

as an external library, i'd say, by someone who really needs it. i don't feel that it is something that should be included into language distribution and supported by core devs.

On Tue, 2016-06-07 at 09:10 +0000, Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars- d wrote:
> 
[…]
> C++ isn't a safe language, but if you are proficient in modern C++ then memory issues aren't the big hurdle. I find the syntactic mess that comes from having N different convoluted ways of doing the same thing in meta-programming to be more problematic in day-to-day programming than safety issues.
> 

std::unique_ptr and std::shared_ptr maybe great for those who have to use C++, but for those with a choice it is the fastest route to Rust. And then you find Rust cannot cope nicely with many C libraries. Hence you find your way to D. Only to find to developer environments nowhere near as good.

For a traditional Emacs person, I am finding CLion a joy to use. D
needs equivalents.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016 at 09:09:04 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 08:21 +0000, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 08:15:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
>> > 3. Have one lightweight D realized cross platform IDE.
>> by the way, Buggins has dlangIDE written with his dlangUI package. it is cross-platform, has debugger support, and written in D!
>
> Some months ago I cloned the repository, compiled it, and then found no way of getting a light on dark mode. I thus deleted and ignored it. Maybe I should try again and instead of ignoring problems, jump up and down, scream, throw my toys out of the pram, and write an issue :-) Yes, I know, and submit a pull request.

considering that the whole package, including dlangUI, is one man work... give it a chance! ;-)