June 06, 2016
On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 08:21:22 UTC, ketmar wrote:
> On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 08:15:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
>> 3. Have one lightweight D realized cross platform IDE.
> by the way, Buggins has dlangIDE written with his dlangUI package. it is cross-platform, has debugger support, and written in D!

As well, it's only a few megabytes in size.
On Windows it can be bundled with mago-mi debugger to avoid Visual Studio dependencies.

June 06, 2016
On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 02:20:52 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> Andrei posted this on another thread. I felt it deserved its own thread. It's very important.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I go to conferences. Train and consult at large companies. Dozens every year, cumulatively thousands of people. I talk about D and ask people what it would take for them to use the language. Invariably I hear a surprisingly small number of reasons:

IMHO biggest problems are:

- There's no standard "de facto" cross-platform / up-to-date IDE with a just working debugger. At least dub is doing a good job to uniform build system. It would be very very useful for beginners and tutorials.

- We miss a lot of "standard" libraries. An example: in my company we have a webservice used by my collegues to upload and store pictures using AWS. It would be nice to convert it in D but we miss:

a) a standard way to listen in http or https (vibe.d could be ok: it appers an overkill for me that I don't know it. I don't need all template framework or mvc etc.).

b) a standard libary to manage pictures (we need to do some simple operations - resize, cut etc)

c) support for aws api in d

d) support for db api in d (we need of course to store info in db).

The last point is ok in our case, because i wrote a binding for mongodb. I wrote a simple fastcgi binding to solve first point. But b) and c) are still waiting for a solution.

And, of course, this is a simple example. For a website or a GUI app a lot of other things are missing. So I think the problem is not D itself but the ecosystem.

Andrea
June 06, 2016
On 06/06/16 04:20, Walter Bright wrote:

> * Tooling is immature and of poorer quality compared to the competition.

What is the competition in this case?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
June 06, 2016
On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 02:46 -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 6/6/2016 2:07 AM, tsbockman wrote:
> > The Windows build for DMD, etc. seems to require tools that
> > Microsoft no longer
> > distributes publicly. I asked about this, but no one replied...
> >     http://forum.dlang.org/post/lzmnllscqyyuqlusrwwe@forum.dlang.or
> > g
> 
> 
> Building dmd with Microsoft C++ isn't an official build. Building it
> with DMC++
> is, works fine, and does not depend on Microsoft tools.

But standard C++ should be compilable with any standards compliant C++
compiler. So if it C++ and compiles with DMC++ then it should compile
with MS C++.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

June 06, 2016
On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 09:09:13 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
>>> Where does this impression come from that Windows is a second-class citizen?

>> So... what's the problem?

I'm saying things like that is where the impression can come from. It's not a problem now.
June 06, 2016
On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 10:33:29 UTC, Vadim Lopatin wrote:
> On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 08:21:22 UTC, ketmar wrote:
>> On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 08:15:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
>>> 3. Have one lightweight D realized cross platform IDE.
>> by the way, Buggins has dlangIDE written with his dlangUI package. it is cross-platform, has debugger support, and written in D!
>
> As well, it's only a few megabytes in size.
> On Windows it can be bundled with mago-mi debugger to avoid Visual Studio dependencies.

you probably should write artice about it, or something alike. something we can point people into when they are asking about D IDEs, so they can read about features, see some screenshots, and download binary packages for at least windows. something more beginner-friendly than current wiki entry point.

not that you "absolutely must" do it, but you are in the best position to do that, as the author. ;-)
June 06, 2016
On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 08:18:20 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 05:28 +0000, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 05:13:11 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
>> > You can still unregister your critical thread from GC.
>> 
>> exactly. that's what i did in my sound engine, and it works like a charm: i can enjoy hiccup-less ogg replaying on the background while the main code enjoys GC.
>
> This should be marketed as a major feature of D: the language with a GC for those situations where you want it, and manual memory management for those cases where you do not want a GC.

Having the GC for the UI is very pleasant, while @nogc time-critical code won't use it.

It think the problem is that the message then become more complicated.
GC is easily victim of the "holier-than-thou" fallacy, because evidently less GC is supposed to translate into faster programs. Er... right?
June 06, 2016
On 06/06/2016 10:35 PM, Andrea Fontana wrote:
> On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 02:20:52 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> Andrei posted this on another thread. I felt it deserved its own
>> thread. It's very important.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I go to conferences. Train and consult at large companies. Dozens
>> every year, cumulatively thousands of people. I talk about D and ask
>> people what it would take for them to use the language. Invariably I
>> hear a surprisingly small number of reasons:
>
> IMHO biggest problems are:
>
> - There's no standard "de facto" cross-platform / up-to-date IDE with a
> just working debugger. At least dub is doing a good job to uniform build
> system. It would be very very useful for beginners and tutorials.
>
> - We miss a lot of "standard" libraries. An example: in my company we
> have a webservice used by my collegues to upload and store pictures
> using AWS. It would be nice to convert it in D but we miss:
>
> a) a standard way to listen in http or https (vibe.d could be ok: it
> appers an overkill for me that I don't know it. I don't need all
> template framework or mvc etc.).
>
> b) a standard libary to manage pictures (we need to do some simple
> operations - resize, cut etc)
>
> c) support for aws api in d
>
> d) support for db api in d (we need of course to store info in db).
>
> The last point is ok in our case, because i wrote a binding for mongodb.
> I wrote a simple fastcgi binding to solve first point. But b) and c) are
> still waiting for a solution.
>
> And, of course, this is a simple example. For a website or a GUI app a
> lot of other things are missing. So I think the problem is not D itself
> but the ecosystem.
>
> Andrea

My goal is to get windowing + image library into Phobos. Do note that this is not a GUI toolkit but definitely a major dependency.

I certainly do need help. Help is very much welcome[0].

@Manu Evans has a good work done for color[1].
But he is quite busy so its not ugh done yet.

[0] https://github.com/rikkimax/alphaPhobos
[1] https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/2845
June 06, 2016
On 6/6/2016 3:40 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-06-06 at 02:46 -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
> wrote:
>> On 6/6/2016 2:07 AM, tsbockman wrote:
>>> The Windows build for DMD, etc. seems to require tools that
>>> Microsoft no longer
>>> distributes publicly. I asked about this, but no one replied...
>>>     http://forum.dlang.org/post/lzmnllscqyyuqlusrwwe@forum.dlang.or
>>> g
>>
>>
>> Building dmd with Microsoft C++ isn't an official build. Building it
>> with DMC++
>> is, works fine, and does not depend on Microsoft tools.
>
> But standard C++ should be compilable with any standards compliant C++
> compiler. So if it C++ and compiles with DMC++ then it should compile
> with MS C++.
>
>

That wasn't the complaint in the post. Besides, most any non-trivial program is going to break the Standard rules. For example, will your code work with 32 bit long bytes? Neither will mine.
June 06, 2016
On Monday, 6 June 2016 at 05:49:53 UTC, Ethan Watson wrote:
>
> Echoing the need for decimal support. I won't use it myself, but I know it's critical for finance.

You can always round something to two digits if you need to.
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