On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 11:48:06 UTC, Dejan Lekic wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 October 2018 at 06:26:30 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> I'm sure some thought and planning is now going into the next DConf, so I'd like to make sure people are aware that the conference format that DConf uses is dying off, as explained here:
>>
>> https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era
>
> It is a matter of personal preference, and a view of a modern-day geek, in my humble opinion... I _highly disagree_. People go to conferences for different reasons. You know, even though we "computer people" tend to be branded as antisocial, there are still many of us who prefer to see someone in person, talk to him/her, meet new people, speak to them too, build the network, exchange phone numbers, etc...
>
> As usual with conferences not all people are happy - you will ALWAYS have people who prefer more technical stuff, and people who prefer more business side - people who try to promote their products and services. - Conferences are brilliant places for them.
>
> Another group of people interested in conferences and meetups are recruiters. My company found few new colleagues this way...
>
> Yet another group are people who also want to see the town where the conference is held - it is a form of tourism if you like.
>
> Yes, you can have all that interaction with some internet-conferencing software, but not at the level when people interact with each other directly!

Like most of the responses in this thread, I have no idea why you're stumping for in-person interaction, when all my suggestions were geared around having _more in-person interaction_.

If you're still not sure what I mean, read this long post I wrote fisking Adam's similar post:

https://forum.dlang.org/post/eoygemytghynpogvljwb@forum.dlang.org

On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 16:21:45 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> Like most of the responses in this thread, I have no idea why you're stumping for in-person interaction, when all my suggestions were geared around having _more in-person interaction_.
>
> If you're still not sure what I mean, read this long post I wrote fisking Adam's similar post:
>
> https://forum.dlang.org/post/eoygemytghynpogvljwb@forum.dlang.org

Perhaps you did not get my point?

- I have nothing against core D team having web-conferences as much as they please. It is up to them (and they may already have them?) how they want to communicate.

What I argued about was that, just because some antisocial geek argues that conferences are "dead" because we have web-conferencing and similar means of communication does not mean we all share that opinion... Everyone can record a "talk" with slides and put it on some video streaming site like Vimeo or YouTube, but I personally see that as ANOTHER way to reach the community, certainly NOT an alternative to a well-organised conference!

Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against the proposal - I think D community can have both good, annual conference, AND what web-conferencing between core D devs, and people who would record talks in their rooms or offices and make them public...

On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 17:13:51 UTC, Dejan Lekic wrote:
> On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 16:21:45 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> Like most of the responses in this thread, I have no idea why you're stumping for in-person interaction, when all my suggestions were geared around having _more in-person interaction_.
>>
>> If you're still not sure what I mean, read this long post I wrote fisking Adam's similar post:
>>
>> https://forum.dlang.org/post/eoygemytghynpogvljwb@forum.dlang.org
>
> Perhaps you did not get my point?

No, I got it, you didn't get mine.

> - I have nothing against core D team having web-conferences as much as they please. It is up to them (and they may already have them?) how they want to communicate.
>
> What I argued about was that, just because some antisocial geek argues that conferences are "dead" because we have web-conferencing and similar means of communication does not mean we all share that opinion... Everyone can record a "talk" with slides and put it on some video streaming site like Vimeo or YouTube, but I personally see that as ANOTHER way to reach the community, certainly NOT an alternative to a well-organised conference!
>
> Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against the proposal - I think D community can have both good, annual conference, AND what web-conferencing between core D devs, and people who would record talks in their rooms or offices and make them public...

While my OP did mention some of those things, it only did so as a way to have _more in-person interaction_ at the two DConf alternative formats I suggested, neither of which was primarily about any of the stuff you mention.

At least look at the first two bullet points in my post responding to Adam, because you're missing the entire point of my suggestions, which is that certain things like talks are better suited to online whereas conferences are more suited for in-person interaction.

On Wed, 2018-10-03 at 17:26 +0000, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote: […]
> At least look at the first two bullet points in my post responding to Adam, because you're missing the entire point of my suggestions, which is that certain things like talks are better suited to online whereas conferences are more suited for in-person interaction.

In your opinion. In my opinion, online material is a waste of time, I never watch YouTube videos, for me it is a waste of my time. But that is the point, different people have a different view. This doesn't mean I am right or wrong, it means different people have different ways of dealing with material.

I like a live presentation that I can then ignore *or* take up with a gusto with the presenter, or other people, after the session. Conferences allow this. Presentations are an introduction to interaction with others. For me. Others prefer to consume videos and have no interactions about the material. Personal differences.

Since there is a population of people who like online stuff, then online stuff there must be. As there are people who like a live presentation and post session discussion, this must also happen. The two are not in conflict.

-- 
Russel.
===========================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk

On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 17:51:00 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-10-03 at 17:26 +0000, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote: […]
>> At least look at the first two bullet points in my post responding to Adam, because you're missing the entire point of my suggestions, which is that certain things like talks are better suited to online whereas conferences are more suited for in-person interaction.
>
> In your opinion. In my opinion, online material is a waste of time, I never watch YouTube videos, for me it is a waste of my time. But that is the point, different people have a different view. This doesn't mean I am right or wrong, it means different people have different ways of dealing with material.
>
> I like a live presentation that I can then ignore *or* take up with a gusto with the presenter, or other people, after the session. Conferences allow this. Presentations are an introduction to interaction with others. For me. Others prefer to consume videos and have no interactions about the material. Personal differences.

Except that you can also view the videos at home, then discuss them later at a conference, which is the actual suggestion here.

> Since there is a population of people who like online stuff, then online stuff there must be. As there are people who like a live presentation and post session discussion, this must also happen. The two are not in conflict.

They are in conflict because the cost of doing it live is much, much higher. DConf organizers' goal should be to enable the widest reach at the lowest cost, not catering to off-the-wall requests from a select few like yourself.

I don't doubt that some are like you and prefer viewing live, but given how conferences keep dying off and online tech talks are booming, you're in an extreme minority that prefers that high-cost live version. That means the market inevitably stops catering to you, which is why the talk-driven conference format is dying off.

On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 18:46:02 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> 
>
> Except that you can also view the videos at home, then discuss them later at a conference, which is the actual suggestion here.
>

Maybe that would work better with a smaller group? I imagine some people are too busy to do that beforehand. Another thing that might work would be to have everybody read through the presentations beforehand and then just have questions. That doesn't work so well when there are live code examples though.

On Wed, 2018-10-03 at 18:46 +0000, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> […]
> 
> I don't doubt that some are like you and prefer viewing live, but given how conferences keep dying off and online tech talks are booming, you're in an extreme minority that prefers that high-cost live version. That means the market inevitably stops catering to you, which is why the talk-driven conference format is dying off.

And new conferences keep being started and being successful. And many just keep on going, often getting more and more successful.

Your personal view of conferences cannot be stated as global truth, since it patently is not fact, and evidence indicates not true, it is just your opinion.

-- 
Russel.
===========================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk

On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 16:17:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 01:28:37 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/2/18 4:34 AM, Joakim wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 2 October 2018 at 09:39:14 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 10/1/18 11:26 PM, Joakim wrote:
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I disagree.
>>> 
>>> It is not clear what you disagree with, since almost nothing you say has any bearing on my original post. To summarize, I suggest changing the currently talk-driven DConf format to either
>>> 
>>> 1. a more decentralized collection of meetups all over the world, where most of the talks are pre-recorded, and the focus is more on introducing new users to the language or
>>> 
>>> 2. at least ditching most of the talks at a DConf still held at a central location, maybe keeping only a couple panel discussions that benefit from an audience to ask questions, and spending most of the time like the hackathon at the last DConf, ie actually meeting in person.
>>> 
>>
>> This point has a subtle flaw. Many of the talks raise points of discussion that would otherwise go without discussion, and potentially unnoticed, if it were not for the person bringing it up. The talks routinely serve as a launchpad for the nightly dinner sessions. Benjamin Thauts 2016 talk about shared libraries is one such example. Indeed every single year has brought at least one (but usually more) talk that opened up some new line of investigation for the dinner discussions.
>
> I thought it was pretty obvious from my original post, since I volunteered to help with the pre-recorded talks, but the idea is to have pre-recorded talks no matter whether DConf is held in a central location or not.
>

I went to a conference once where they had mixed live talks and prerecorded talks - questions where taken at the end to the speaker of the prerecorded talk via a sip call.

The organisers at the end admitted that the prerecorded talks experiment failed. No one really paid attention to any of the content in it.

On 04/10/2018 8:53 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote:
> I went to a conference once where they had mixed live talks and prerecorded talks - questions where taken at the end to the speaker of the prerecorded talk via a sip call.
> 
> The organisers at the end admitted that the prerecorded talks experiment failed. No one really paid attention to any of the content in it.

There are a lot of social cues that a speaker can take note of and use to determine the pace of the talk or what to put emphasis on. So that result doesn't really surprise me.

On Thursday, 4 October 2018 at 07:12:03 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-10-03 at 18:46 +0000, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> […]
>> 
>> I don't doubt that some are like you and prefer viewing live, but given how conferences keep dying off and online tech talks are booming, you're in an extreme minority that prefers that high-cost live version. That means the market inevitably stops catering to you, which is why the talk-driven conference format is dying off.
>
> And new conferences keep being started and being successful. And many just keep on going, often getting more and more successful.
>
> Your personal view of conferences cannot be stated as global truth, since it patently is not fact, and evidence indicates not true, it is just your opinion.

The link in my OP links to a guy who maintained a spreadsheet of Apple-related conferences as evidence. He lists several that went away and says nothing replaced them. If you don't even examine the evidence provided, I'm not sure why we should care about your opinions.

On Thursday, 4 October 2018 at 07:53:54 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
> On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 16:17:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 at 01:28:37 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:
>>> On 10/2/18 4:34 AM, Joakim wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, 2 October 2018 at 09:39:14 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>> 
>>>> It is not clear what you disagree with, since almost nothing you say has any bearing on my original post. To summarize, I suggest changing the currently talk-driven DConf format to either
>>>> 
>>>> 1. a more decentralized collection of meetups all over the world, where most of the talks are pre-recorded, and the focus is more on introducing new users to the language or
>>>> 
>>>> 2. at least ditching most of the talks at a DConf still held at a central location, maybe keeping only a couple panel discussions that benefit from an audience to ask questions, and spending most of the time like the hackathon at the last DConf, ie actually meeting in person.
>>>> 
>>>
>>> This point has a subtle flaw. Many of the talks raise points of discussion that would otherwise go without discussion, and potentially unnoticed, if it were not for the person bringing it up. The talks routinely serve as a launchpad for the nightly dinner sessions. Benjamin Thauts 2016 talk about shared libraries is one such example. Indeed every single year has brought at least one (but usually more) talk that opened up some new line of investigation for the dinner discussions.
>>
>> I thought it was pretty obvious from my original post, since I volunteered to help with the pre-recorded talks, but the idea is to have pre-recorded talks no matter whether DConf is held in a central location or not.
>>
>
> I went to a conference once where they had mixed live talks and prerecorded talks - questions where taken at the end to the speaker of the prerecorded talk via a sip call.
>
> The organisers at the end admitted that the prerecorded talks experiment failed. No one really paid attention to any of the content in it.

Did anybody pay attention to the live talks either? ;) That's the real comparison.

Anyway, the reason I'm giving to prerecord talks is so you can watch them on your own time before the conference. Watching prerecorded talks with everybody else at a conference is layering stupid on top of stupid. :D