On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 03:49:24 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 01:37:01 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:
>> You should take your own advice first, when you insult other people by calling them "Microsoft fanboys". Take your snark somewhere else.
>
> and btw. if you had gone back a few threads (instead of just jumping into a conversation to just have a go at me), then you'd know that it all started because i attempted to inject some humour into the converstation, and used a youtube video that made fun of the design of Windows 10 - in a humerous manner.
>
> What results from that, was some guy telling me that I was bashing on Adam. That i was anti this and anti that.
>
> Then others got involved too, trying to bash on me even further.
>
> The same thing happened when I mentioned my concern that 64bit D on Windows can only happen if the user is prepared to download GB's of propriatory, closed source, bloatware. When I did that, MSFT fanboys came out to dump on me, instead of saying..yeah..perhaps that might be a good way for D to proceed.
>
> So, if you're all willing to dish it out to me, you better be prepared to take some too!
>
> D's future will depend not on how well it ties into a propriatory o/s, but who well it runs in open source environments. Anyone who doesn't see that, doesn't understand whats going on in the world of software development. Even MSFT get that, and are now trying to port C# as quickly as possibly to other platforms to hold off the competition that's already here, and more to come.
>
> I think D is where it is, because it was developed on Windows (windows 32 bit it seems). Had it been developed on an open source operating system, I expect it would be miles ahead of where it currently is.
>
> If D is making Windows its platform priority, then it has to compete with exiting MSFT solutions on the platform, which in my mind, are far superior to anyting D can or will be able to provide. D should focus its attention elsewhere.
>
> That's just my opinion. Others can disagree. I don't mind disagreement. But I mind not being allowed to disagree!

Indeed, the strength of D is that it is portable among the big platforms remaining. One of its drawbacks can be seen somehow as an asset. Its lack of preferred GUI kit means that it is not intimately bound to the user interface of that platform. Swift and Objective-C are glued to Apple and outside of it are niche. Same for C# on Windows. Java is portable but is a bitch to distribute, especially on Windows where more often than not it poses security risks that IT departments do not like.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 09:47:32 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
> Indeed, the strength of D is that it is portable among the big platforms remaining. One of its drawbacks can be seen somehow as an asset. Its lack of preferred GUI kit means that it is not intimately bound to the user interface of that platform. Swift and Objective-C are glued to Apple and outside of it are niche. Same for C# on Windows. Java is portable but is a bitch to distribute, especially on Windows where more often than not it poses security risks that IT departments do not like.

Yeah, integrating gui's into a programming language is complex....there are some gui kits for D in github, but none I find compelling at this stage - even though they're authors are doing a great job.

It's not that it's too complex technically, but the corporates I've done work for would never allow you to bring in your own gui anyway. Everything has to be standardised, and look familiar to users.

same with vibe.d - great idea, great implementation - but none of the corporates I've done work for are ever going to do anything with vibe.d - ever.

Startups are a good potential market for D - but it still faces a lot of competition.

I'd like D to think bigger than just duplicating what's out there, and being 'compatible' with this and that operating system  - or just be marketed as a quicker way to compile your slow c++ code.

I'd wouldn't mind seeing a new open source operating system, lets call it 'System D'....just slips of the tongue doesn't it ;-)

(micro) Kernel : written in D
Development tools: written in D
Userland/Gui : written in D
Webserver: written in D
...
.....
.......

D is a systems programming language, and has the potential to do all of this, and more.

Then let others look at D, instead of D looking to others.

Of course, it's easy to have such a grand vision.....

But I'm really struggling to see any compelling vision at the moment, other than D just being another language to choose from.

The vision, based on what I've been reading on these forums, seems to be about 'grabbing stuff from this and that language, and integrating this and that feature, or this and that syntax' - as if all of this will make D more attractive out in the real world. I don't see that mindset leading anywhere. It will just lead to an even more complex language, with even more features. At that is the point where people start to envision something simpler and easier...and the cycle starts all over again... in 2030, Go will be so complex someone will have to invent GoLess.

But, I'm happy nonetheless...cause I only program for recreation these days, and D provides a really nice playground for me, with lots of new toys to play with....and many are yet to be discovered.

And most importantly, it runs on FreeBSD!

On 11/11/2017 11:18 AM, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 09:47:32 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
>> Indeed, the strength of D is that it is portable among the big platforms remaining. One of its drawbacks can be seen somehow as an asset. Its lack of preferred GUI kit means that it is not intimately bound to the user interface of that platform. Swift and Objective-C are glued to Apple and outside of it are niche. Same for C# on Windows. Java is portable but is a bitch to distribute, especially on Windows where more often than not it poses security risks that IT departments do not like.
> 
> Yeah, integrating gui's into a programming language is complex....there are some gui kits for D in github, but none I find compelling at this stage - even though they're authors are doing a great job.
> 
> It's not that it's too complex technically, but the corporates I've done work for would never allow you to bring in your own gui anyway. Everything has to be standardised, and look familiar to users.

GUI toolkits are definitely complex.

Everything from rendering of fonts correctly (bidi layouts) to accessibility (which is basically impossible to do right too) and that's with ignoring more obvious things like how to render a widget.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 11:18:24 UTC, codephantom wrote:
>
> I'd like D to think bigger than just duplicating what's out there, and being 'compatible' with this and that operating system
>  - or just be marketed as a quicker way to compile your slow c++ code.
>
> I'd wouldn't mind seeing a new open source operating system, lets call it 'System D'....just slips of the tongue doesn't it ;-)
>

Yeah, stop duplicating what's out there and start writing similar software what already exists. Sounds great.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 11:18:24 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> Yeah, integrating gui's into a programming language is complex....there are some gui kits for D in github, but none I find compelling at this stage - even though they're authors are doing a great job.
>
> It's not that it's too complex technically, but the corporates I've done work for would never allow you to bring in your own gui anyway. Everything has to be standardised, and look familiar to users.
>

If you target windows and you do not mind to install a free version of Delphi on your pc, you can use the Delphi VCL/Firemonkey gui toolkit, create your ui forms in the Delphi editor while implementing the program logic in D.

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/fwsbrmkbqkolrsztxcoq@forum.dlang.org

Kind regards
Andre

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 02:30:50 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 01:37:01 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:
>> A supported and very popular language. Seriously in it the top ten popular language list for a good reason. You should google it.
>
> I don't have to google it. I've been using it for 17 years.
Then you should know the current status of it and how it compare it to D.
>
>> - VS.NET does most of the coding for you.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation
>
> Won't be long till they do it ALL for you.
You not making any sense here. Every programming language comes with their standard libraries, so that programmers won't reinvent the wheel every time they program.
>
>
>> Neither do the majority of developers when it comes to their compilers.
>
> Do most C# programmers even know what a compiler is?
> When was the last time a C# programmer actually compiled anything... I mean really...they just push button and have no idea whats going on.
It called "Roslyn", and you can google the information. LOL at your "actually compiled anything"! Really? Do you even understand what Just-in-time compilation even means!? It like you didn't read the link that I posted to you! Do your think you antidote experience applies to every c# programmer out there?
>
>
>> That why C# have static classes.
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/programming-guide/classes-and-structs/static-classes-and-static-class-members
>
>> Not every programming language in existence needed to be Procedural based Language. You need to expand your horizons when it comes to different types of languages.


> Can't take the criticism of C#?

It not that I can't take criticism, is that your criticism doesn't make any sense. That like criticizing Prolog for not having any procedural base language when it designed to be a purely logic programming language.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 02:34:11 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 01:37:01 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:
>> You should take your own advice first, when you insult other people by calling them "Microsoft fanboys". Take your snark somewhere else.
>
> I'm just dishing out what they've been doing to me, simply cause I dared to critcise something that MSFT produce.
>
> You take your snark elsewhere!

The fact that you not once, not twice, but three times you reply to the same statement! Wow I must really got underneath your skin when I say that.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 16:45:11 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 02:34:11 UTC, codephantom wrote:
>> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 01:37:01 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:
>>> You should take your own advice first, when you insult other people by calling them "Microsoft fanboys". Take your snark somewhere else.
>>
>> I'm just dishing out what they've been doing to me, simply cause I dared to critcise something that MSFT produce.
>>
>> You take your snark elsewhere!
>
> The fact that you not once, not twice, but three times you reply to the same statement! Wow I must really got underneath your skin when I say that.

Well, that was your purpose.. wasn't it. It is afterall, the moda operandi of MSFT fanboys. Thanks for your contribution.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 12:53:46 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>
> Yeah, stop duplicating what's out there and start writing similar software what already exists. Sounds great.

Dude.. I can only assume you're very young.

Why do you think C took off as it did?

It wasn't because people spent hours on forums discussing how to integrate this operator, or that operator.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 12:53:46 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>
> Yeah, stop duplicating what's out there and start writing similar software what already exists. Sounds great.

Where is the secure, modular operating system, written in a safe language?

And a language that you can use for the rest of the o/s ecosystem too.

People are still searching for this holy grail..it hasn't been found..

Why? Perhaps because the right language has come around yet.

Maybe D is it, maybe not...

..so it actually *doesn't* already exist.