"C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804

On 19/12/2017 9:54 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
> 
> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804

I must agree, GC is a wonderful fallback.

Although I do wish we had better scope+RC support.
Signatures too would have significant benefit towards AMM.

On 12/19/2017 2:02 AM, rikki cattermole wrote:
> On 19/12/2017 9:54 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>>
>> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804
> 
> I must agree, GC is a wonderful fallback.

I tend to write hybrid programs in D, so I wouldn't call it a fallback. Just like I might use both structs and classes!

On 19/12/2017 10:09 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/19/2017 2:02 AM, rikki cattermole wrote:
>> On 19/12/2017 9:54 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>>>
>>> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804
>>
>> I must agree, GC is a wonderful fallback.
> 
> I tend to write hybrid programs in D, so I wouldn't call it a fallback. Just like I might use both structs and classes!

I'm working mostly on library type code like SPEW. Where I do use both sturcts and classes but prefer IAllocator over the GC (even if the instance is the GC) with RC.

Indeed, for quick utility things I don't bother with anything else either! :)

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 at 09:54:05 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>
> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804

I think D and the GC are highly appropriate for developing high performance application software. That's where D really shines. It's a shame that Qt is such a nightmare to use in anything that isn't C++. GTK is easy enough to use at least. What's funny is that both frameworks implement their own memory management schemes. That points to a need for automatic memory management.

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 at 10:54:12 UTC, w0rp wrote:
> On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 at 09:54:05 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>>
>> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804
>
> I think D and the GC are highly appropriate for developing high performance application software. That's where D really shines. It's a shame that Qt is such a nightmare to use in anything that isn't C++. GTK is easy enough to use at least. What's funny is that both frameworks implement their own memory management schemes. That points to a need for automatic memory management.

Why only application software?  The point of that blog post is that whole swathes of system programming should be done with mostly GC, leaving only OS kernels, some real-time apps, and the highly-constrained embedded space to the betterC mode.

rikki cattermole wrote:

> On 19/12/2017 9:54 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804
>
> I must agree, GC is a wonderful fallback.
>
> Although I do wish we had better scope+RC support.

but Rikki, we have this! i'm using refcounted structs for years, and it works like a charm! ;-)

On 19/12/2017 11:30 AM, ketmar wrote:
> rikki cattermole wrote:
> 
>> On 19/12/2017 9:54 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>>> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804
>>
>> I must agree, GC is a wonderful fallback.
>>
>> Although I do wish we had better scope+RC support.
> 
> but Rikki, we have this! i'm using refcounted structs for years, and it works like a charm! ;-)

And that is why I said better!

rikki cattermole wrote:

> On 19/12/2017 11:30 AM, ketmar wrote:
>> rikki cattermole wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19/12/2017 9:54 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>>>> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804
>>>
>>> I must agree, GC is a wonderful fallback.
>>>
>>> Although I do wish we had better scope+RC support.
>> but Rikki, we have this! i'm using refcounted structs for years, and it works like a charm! ;-)
>
> And that is why I said better!

you can't have better than working! ;-)

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 at 09:54:05 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> "C, Python, Go, and the Generalized Greenspun Law"
>
> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7804

I'm still not sure why this precludes GC from just being a standard library feature vs. a language feature. D is probably better prepared than other languages in doing that cleanly.