A short OT question: A friend of mine wants to set up a forum or mailing list and would like to know to which extent the moderator or owner of the forum is liable, if some random troll or member puts libelous, insulting or racist remarks on the forum. I guess it depends mainly on national laws, but is there some general "I'm not responsible for anything"-clause in the terms & conditions that subscribers have to accept. If not, it would be very dangerous to set up a forum or mailing list. Thanks for any hints, links or tricks.

On Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:34:21 Chris wrote:
> A short OT question: A friend of mine wants to set up a forum or mailing list and would like to know to which extent the moderator or owner of the forum is liable, if some random troll or member puts libelous, insulting or racist remarks on the forum. I guess it depends mainly on national laws, but is there some general "I'm not responsible for anything"-clause in the terms & conditions that subscribers have to accept. If not, it would be very dangerous to set up a forum or mailing list. Thanks for any hints, links or tricks.

I don't know how anyone could ever be held liable for something someone else said on their forum, but it's not often that it makes sense when someone sues someone.

- Jonathan M Davis

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 at 10:41:17 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:34:21 Chris wrote:
>> A short OT question: A friend of mine wants to set up a forum or
>> mailing list and would like to know to which extent the moderator
>> or owner of the forum is liable, if some random troll or member
>> puts libelous, insulting or racist remarks on the forum. I guess
>> it depends mainly on national laws, but is there some general
>> "I'm not responsible for anything"-clause in the terms &
>> conditions that subscribers have to accept. If not, it would be
>> very dangerous to set up a forum or mailing list. Thanks for any
>> hints, links or tricks.
>
> I don't know how anyone could ever be held liable for something someone else
> said on their forum, but it's not often that it makes sense when someone sues
> someone.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

If someone claims that the moderator didn't remove an insulting or libelous post on the forum. I guess a mailing list is safer, because it is not public in the sense that it's out there on the Web. It consists of private email messages and the author takes responsibility for what he writes (it's like a signed letter in a way).

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 at 10:34:23 UTC, Chris wrote:
> A short OT question: A friend of mine wants to set up a forum or mailing list and would like to know to which extent the moderator or owner of the forum is liable, if some random troll or member puts libelous, insulting or racist remarks on the forum. I guess it depends mainly on national laws, but is there some general "I'm not responsible for anything"-clause in the terms & conditions that subscribers have to accept. If not, it would be very dangerous to set up a forum or mailing list. Thanks for any hints, links or tricks.

Completely up to national laws and their actual enforcement. And terms of service that go against local laws never have any juridical power.

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 at 11:28:12 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 at 10:34:23 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> A short OT question: A friend of mine wants to set up a forum or mailing list and would like to know to which extent the moderator or owner of the forum is liable, if some random troll or member puts libelous, insulting or racist remarks on the forum. I guess it depends mainly on national laws, but is there some general "I'm not responsible for anything"-clause in the terms & conditions that subscribers have to accept. If not, it would be very dangerous to set up a forum or mailing list. Thanks for any hints, links or tricks.
>
> Completely up to national laws and their actual enforcement. And terms of service that go against local laws never have any juridical power.

Yep, I thought so too. However, I wonder if there is something that saves the moderator's a**e, else we wouldn't have so many forums all over the world. There are countries (like GB and the Republic of Ireland) that have very strict libel laws. Imagine the comments under newspaper articles, if you could take the newspaper to court for the bullsh*t some people write (libelous, racist, insulting), there would be an avalanche of lawsuits (if it's just to get some money).

On 08/10/13 13:38, Chris wrote:
> Yep, I thought so too. However, I wonder if there is something that saves the
> moderator's a**e, else we wouldn't have so many forums all over the world. There
> are countries (like GB and the Republic of Ireland) that have very strict libel
> laws. Imagine the comments under newspaper articles, if you could take the
> newspaper to court for the bullsh*t some people write (libelous, racist,
> insulting), there would be an avalanche of lawsuits (if it's just to get some
> money).

Which is why British newspapers at least are quite strict about moderating comment threads on their websites.  You also have contempt-of-court law to contend with -- if an article is about an ongoing legal case, for example, it is typical for comment threads to be turned off or at least pre-moderated.

British libel law would be hard pressed to pursue somebody with no UK presence who published a website hosted outside of the UK, although there have been cases where the UK arm of a publisher was targeted with a libel lawsuit for a book published and theoretically only distributed abroad.  It's sufficient for even one copy of the book to be sold to a UK buyer by a company like Amazon.

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 at 13:12:19 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
> On 08/10/13 13:38, Chris wrote:
>> Yep, I thought so too. However, I wonder if there is something that saves the
>> moderator's a**e, else we wouldn't have so many forums all over the world. There
>> are countries (like GB and the Republic of Ireland) that have very strict libel
>> laws. Imagine the comments under newspaper articles, if you could take the
>> newspaper to court for the bullsh*t some people write (libelous, racist,
>> insulting), there would be an avalanche of lawsuits (if it's just to get some
>> money).
>
> Which is why British newspapers at least are quite strict about moderating comment threads on their websites.  You also have contempt-of-court law to contend with -- if an article is about an ongoing legal case, for example, it is typical for comment threads to be turned off or at least pre-moderated.
>
> British libel law would be hard pressed to pursue somebody with no UK presence who published a website hosted outside of the UK, although there have been cases where the UK arm of a publisher was targeted with a libel lawsuit for a book published and theoretically only distributed abroad.  It's sufficient for even one copy of the book to be sold to a UK buyer by a company like Amazon.

I see. A private person wouldn't possibly be able to moderate the forum all the time. However, mailing lists (a forum via email) might be a different beast altogether, because everyone is writing personal email messages that are not public in the same way this forum is. So if someone writes "I think that Mr. XYZ is a **** and a ****! **** you!", nobody could possibly sue the one who founded the email forum for these comments?

On 08/10/13 15:56, Chris wrote:
> I see. A private person wouldn't possibly be able to moderate the forum all the
> time. However, mailing lists (a forum via email) might be a different beast
> altogether, because everyone is writing personal email messages that are not
> public in the same way this forum is. So if someone writes "I think that Mr. XYZ
> is a **** and a ****! **** you!", nobody could possibly sue the one who founded
> the email forum for these comments?

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, get your own legal advice, etc. etc.  (Should have written that in my previous email too.  See what a minefield this international legal thing is?:-)

Generally speaking it seems like the typical experience in the UK is that if you have the means for people to report abusive or libellous material posted on your forum, and you are responsive to such reports, then it is very unlikely that any legal suit will be coming your way.

But that is "unlikely", not "impossible".  Someone who had a bone to pick with you could probably still launch suit.  In some circumstances I wouldn't bet against that happening if somebody's goal was to shut down a website.

On Tuesday, 8 October 2013 at 15:42:25 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
> On 08/10/13 15:56, Chris wrote:
>> I see. A private person wouldn't possibly be able to moderate the forum all the
>> time. However, mailing lists (a forum via email) might be a different beast
>> altogether, because everyone is writing personal email messages that are not
>> public in the same way this forum is. So if someone writes "I think that Mr. XYZ
>> is a **** and a ****! **** you!", nobody could possibly sue the one who founded
>> the email forum for these comments?
>
> Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, get your own legal advice, etc. etc.  (Should have written that in my previous email too.  See what a minefield this international legal thing is?:-)
>
> Generally speaking it seems like the typical experience in the UK is that if you have the means for people to report abusive or libellous material posted on your forum, and you are responsive to such reports, then it is very unlikely that any legal suit will be coming your way.
>
> But that is "unlikely", not "impossible".  Someone who had a bone to pick with you could probably still launch suit.  In some circumstances I wouldn't bet against that happening if somebody's goal was to shut down a website.

Well, well, it's a sad story.

"Bloggers are also affected. The Society of Homeopaths, for example, recently took offence at something written by Andy Lewis on his Quackometer website. Lewis was prepared to stand firm over his comments but, rather than sue him, the society instead threatened the web-hosting company, which promptly took down his blog."

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2010/02/28/irish-defamation-law-still-inadequate-for-internet/

On 10/8/13 3:34 AM, Chris wrote:
> A short OT question: A friend of mine wants to set up a forum or mailing list and would like to know
> to which extent the moderator or owner of the forum is liable, if some random troll or member puts
> libelous, insulting or racist remarks on the forum. I guess it depends mainly on national laws, but
> is there some general "I'm not responsible for anything"-clause in the terms & conditions that
> subscribers have to accept. If not, it would be very dangerous to set up a forum or mailing list.
> Thanks for any hints, links or tricks.

If you want a legal opinion, ask a lawyer.  Seriously.