Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:

https://our.status.im/status-partners-with-the-team-behind-the-programming-language-nim/
https://nim-lang.org/blog/2018/08/07/nim-partners-with-status.html

D should also be trying to raise resources like this, though it doesn't have to be corporate funding from one source. This company funding Nim raised $100 million in an ICO last year to build some kind of cryptocurrency-oriented mobile apps platform:

https://www.inc.com/brian-d-evans/status-ico-raised-over-100-million-for-ethereum-powered-dapps-on-ios-and-androi.html

There are risks, of course. This company could flame out, like many of these new cryptocurrency companies do, leaving Nim without ongoing funding. Their priorities may not align with the Nim core team.

However, there are other ways to raise funds. Companies using D could use the existing bountysource page to put up bounties for features/fixes or projects they need, to which community members who need some particular feature/fix could also donate:

https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d

There are two primary factors in the success of any project, design and resources. I'm reasonably happy with the design of D and how technical decisions are being made. I think this is a core strength of D.

However, it appears the D core team has so far been doing a horrible job in gathering resources for the project. I'm not privy to any internal discussions or if this is being discussed at all. But it needs to be a priority for the ongoing growth of this project.

On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 09:50:29 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:
>
> https://our.status.im/status-partners-with-the-team-behind-the-programming-language-nim/
> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2018/08/07/nim-partners-with-status.html
>
> D should also be trying to raise resources like this, though it doesn't have to be corporate funding from one source. This company funding Nim raised $100 million in an ICO last year to build some kind of cryptocurrency-oriented mobile apps platform:
>
> https://www.inc.com/brian-d-evans/status-ico-raised-over-100-million-for-ethereum-powered-dapps-on-ios-and-androi.html
>
> There are risks, of course. This company could flame out, like many of these new cryptocurrency companies do, leaving Nim without ongoing funding. Their priorities may not align with the Nim core team.
>
> However, there are other ways to raise funds. Companies using D could use the existing bountysource page to put up bounties for features/fixes or projects they need, to which community members who need some particular feature/fix could also donate:
>
> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d
>
> There are two primary factors in the success of any project, design and resources. I'm reasonably happy with the design of D and how technical decisions are being made. I think this is a core strength of D.
>
> However, it appears the D core team has so far been doing a horrible job in gathering resources for the project. I'm not privy to any internal discussions or if this is being discussed at all. But it needs to be a priority for the ongoing growth of this project.

I do agree on your points Joakim. The "orgs using D"-section has seen growth over the time I've been here so that's something, but it'd be good if the collaborations would rise above the news threshold.

Also, has the bounty been suggested to the organizations using D? It could help develop aspects of D that are needed to break through into the wider world. As much fun as it is to do personal projects, D needs the features that are required by companies or other organizations to grow. D also needs the funding to operate the infrastructure, advertise and pay out something as an incentive for what to build to help those wishing to dev (more) full-time. The latest blog post about funding code-d was a step into the right direction IMO.

It would be nice to hear from the core team if something is in the Works besides the code-d-project. If help is needed on where or how to try and get support, I can volunteer with what I know about the subject to throw around ideas or come up with plans. I have only a BBA so if someone knows more, it might be good if they volunteered instead/too.

On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 09:50:29 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:
>
> https://our.status.im/status-partners-with-the-team-behind-the-programming-language-nim/
> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2018/08/07/nim-partners-with-status.html
>
> D should also be trying to raise resources like this, though it doesn't have to be corporate funding from one source. This company funding Nim raised $100 million in an ICO last year to build some kind of cryptocurrency-oriented mobile apps platform:

We now have the D Language Foundation. They are doing what they can to raise this type of funding AFAICT.

We may already have more than the equivalent of two full-time devs being funded. There are graduate students working on the compiler, Symmetry Autumn of Code (not an insignificant amount of money), and Symmetry has funded a lot of good work by Ilya that forms the foundation for scientific/data computing. Then there is the successful funding to improve the IDE situation.

It's great for Nim that a company has decided they like the language and want to help get it into the state that they need to conduct their business. I'm not sure the risk of losing that kind of funding and being willing to change the language to suit one company's needs is a perfect solution. Rich Hickey actually stopped taking that kind of money, because everyone thought they could attach strings to it.

On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 11:42:57 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 09:50:29 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:
>>
>> https://our.status.im/status-partners-with-the-team-behind-the-programming-language-nim/
>> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2018/08/07/nim-partners-with-status.html
>>
>> D should also be trying to raise resources like this, though it doesn't have to be corporate funding from one source. This company funding Nim raised $100 million in an ICO last year to build some kind of cryptocurrency-oriented mobile apps platform:
>
> We now have the D Language Foundation. They are doing what they can to raise this type of funding AFAICT.
>
> We may already have more than the equivalent of two full-time devs being funded. There are graduate students working on the compiler, Symmetry Autumn of Code (not an insignificant amount of money), and Symmetry has funded a lot of good work by Ilya that forms the foundation for scientific/data computing. Then there is the successful funding to improve the IDE situation.
>
> It's great for Nim that a company has decided they like the language and want to help get it into the state that they need to conduct their business. I'm not sure the risk of losing that kind of funding and being willing to change the language to suit one company's needs is a perfect solution. Rich Hickey actually stopped taking that kind of money, because everyone thought they could attach strings to it.

Ah. This cleared things up a bit. Thank you. It seemed to be one way but apparently wasn't. I stand corrected.

In that case things look decent enough for me to stop worrying about this too much. And yeah, if it's a common occurance that companies try to highjack things, then it's better to be careful. Enough things have been run to the ground by Big Bucks starting to meddle in things without knowhow or vision. Didn't know it was that common.

On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 12:06:25 UTC, I Lindström wrote:
> In that case things look decent enough for me to stop worrying about this too much. And yeah, if it's a common occurance that companies try to highjack things, then it's better to be careful. Enough things have been run to the ground by Big Bucks starting to meddle in things without knowhow or vision. Didn't know it was that common.

I want to be careful not to give the impression that I have inside knowledge on these things. If you're getting outside funding, there is uniquely one thing that you focus on - making money. The two devs that are working on Nim full-time will not be working on things that are in the interest of anyone other than the company paying their salaries. That may or may not be good for the community.

On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 09:50:29 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:

:jealous:

> However, there are other ways to raise funds. Companies using D could use the existing bountysource page to put up bounties for features/fixes or projects they need, to which community members who need some particular feature/fix could also donate:
>
> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d

I think bountysource would work if the bounties were significantly higher, but there are also the funding options at https://opencollective.com/dlang

Looking on the right column of the page there are several D enthusiasts contributing their hard-earned money to D.  Maybe there's a better option for the masses, besides a T-shirt and a DConf discount, that might encourage more donors.  For example, I might contribute somewhere between $100 or more if I could get some attention on some bugs/features that I care about (assuming I couldn't implement them myself).  Maybe I'll post a bounty in the near future and see how it goes.

Right now, I'm the only one I know of working on the #dbugfix stuff, but I'm finding the bugs submitted this round exceptionally difficult.  I don't know if I'll succeed with a fix this round (Sorry!), but contact me directly, or post an announcement on the forum, if you have a bug that you're willing to motivate with a financial contribution to the D Foundation, and I'll personally take a look at it.  I'm generally only capable of fixing some of the more simple bugs, as my skills and understanding of DMD are quite limited, but I promise I'll try.

Mike

On Tuesday, 14 August 2018 at 02:49:58 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:
> On Monday, 13 August 2018 at 09:50:29 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:
>
> :jealous:
>
>> However, there are other ways to raise funds. Companies using D could use the existing bountysource page to put up bounties for features/fixes or projects they need, to which community members who need some particular feature/fix could also donate:
>>
>> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d
>
> I think bountysource would work if the bounties were significantly higher, but there are also the funding options at https://opencollective.com/dlang

Yes, some of those bounties are too low for the amount of work, but nothing stops others who find them important to increase the bounty incrementally.

> Looking on the right column of the page there are several D enthusiasts contributing their hard-earned money to D.  Maybe there's a better option for the masses, besides a T-shirt and a DConf discount, that might encourage more donors.  For example, I might contribute somewhere between $100 or more if I could get some attention on some bugs/features that I care about (assuming I couldn't implement them myself).  Maybe I'll post a bounty in the near future and see how it goes.

A variation on that appears to be in the cards, as they've said there will be more funding targets:

https://forum.dlang.org/post/orvcznlvraunkksjdgez@forum.dlang.org

I don't really care which website is used, bountysource or opencollective or whatever, but the community is unlikely to contribute unless they have a clear idea of where the money is going, which bountysource does a better job of showing right now.

> Right now, I'm the only one I know of working on the #dbugfix stuff, but I'm finding the bugs submitted this round exceptionally difficult.  I don't know if I'll succeed with a fix this round (Sorry!), but contact me directly, or post an announcement on the forum, if you have a bug that you're willing to motivate with a financial contribution to the D Foundation, and I'll personally take a look at it.  I'm generally only capable of fixing some of the more simple bugs, as my skills and understanding of DMD are quite limited, but I promise I'll try.

This is not about me: I personally don't have any blocker bugs that I'm worried about. I'm concerned about the general pace of D development: I don't think we're as focused or organized on gathering resources as we should be. My preferred model is to turn D into a partially proprietary product, but I guess the core team doesn't like that approach:

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/okuzksqzczprvuklpzaw@forum.dlang.org

Back when I was a little kid decades ago, I had a neighbor who used to build model trains in his garage, what he did in his spare time. I remember seeing it then and being thrilled that it snaked all over his work area. 99% of open source projects are the "model trains" of software devs, something they work on for fun in their spare time, and never get used widely.

To get into the 1% of OSS projects that are actually widely used, you need some way to gather resources to grow the project. There's the linux model where you get a bunch of consulting and support companies to use you. There's the llvm/clang model where you become a product in a large company, part of their portfolio alongside proprietary products or modules that pay the bills. There's the Firefox model where you sell ads alongside the OSS product. There's new models where you use crowdfunding sites like kickstarter or opencollective.

D has so far used very little of any of these models. This project can give off the impression that it is simply a big model train for Walter and Andrei, a hobby that they've retired to work on. Instead, I'd like to see D much more widely used, which means work needs to be done on gathering resources beyond what the project has now.

On Tuesday, 14 August 2018 at 07:05:12 UTC, Joakim wrote:

>> if you have a bug ...
>
> This is not about me:

Sorry, I mean the plural "you", as in anyone reading this thread.

Mike

On 8/13/18 5:50 AM, Joakim wrote:
> Announced last week, the Nim team will be adding two full-time paid devs and setting up grants for needed projects with this new funding:
> 
> https://our.status.im/status-partners-with-the-team-behind-the-programming-language-nim/ 
> 
> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2018/08/07/nim-partners-with-status.html
> 
> D should also be trying to raise resources like this, though it doesn't have to be corporate funding from one source. This company funding Nim raised $100 million in an ICO last year to build some kind of cryptocurrency-oriented mobile apps platform:
> 
> https://www.inc.com/brian-d-evans/status-ico-raised-over-100-million-for-ethereum-powered-dapps-on-ios-and-androi.html 
> 
> 
> There are risks, of course. This company could flame out, like many of these new cryptocurrency companies do, leaving Nim without ongoing funding. Their priorities may not align with the Nim core team.
> 
> However, there are other ways to raise funds. Companies using D could use the existing bountysource page to put up bounties for features/fixes or projects they need, to which community members who need some particular feature/fix could also donate:
> 
> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d
> 
> There are two primary factors in the success of any project, design and resources. I'm reasonably happy with the design of D and how technical decisions are being made. I think this is a core strength of D.
> 
> However, it appears the D core team has so far been doing a horrible job in gathering resources for the project. I'm not privy to any internal discussions or if this is being discussed at all. But it needs to be a priority for the ongoing growth of this project.

Thanks for the info. That's good for Nim and something we could definitely benefit from as well. Currently, Sebastian Wilzbach and Razvan Nitu, both students, are working full time with the Foundation. Mike is our publishing and general PR person, working a reliable part time. We are in talks with a few more students from Romania and Brazil.

Our early experiments with bountysource were sadly unsuccessful. I'm not writing it off but we'd probably need a new angle for a new round of experimentation. Suggestions are welcome.

Regarding corporate sponsorship, we have been public about being interested, but we haven't exactly beaten off offers with a stick. I have personally asked our top users in several instances for assistance. There has been some, but not to the extent of allocating one or more full-time engineers. Shout out to Laeeth Isharc whose enterprise has been far and away the most generous, and to Weka as well for sharing with us some time and resources at a crucial juncture for the company.

We've always been glad to take suggestions from individual collaborators. Mike Parker would be the person to reach out to. What would be best is to get some concrete action; historically, the typical suggestion came in the form "here's this great idea, you go work on it". Even that is fine if the idea is fleshed out and argued convincingly. Better yet, there's no better proof that an idea is good than to actually execute it to demonstrable benefit.


Thanks,

Andrei

On Wednesday, 15 August 2018 at 20:45:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> ... We are in talks with a few more students from Romania and Brazil...

I'm from Brazil and I use D for hobby projects. It would be nice to present them later, in fact I was interested to create D group around here and maybe these Brazilian students may help.

Matheus.