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Thread overview
Old but interesting link as to the low adoption reason for D
Feb 12
Bo
Feb 12
Bo
Feb 12
Ali
Feb 12
bachmeier
Feb 13
welkam
Feb 13
ketmar
Feb 13
Bo
Feb 13
bauss
Feb 15
Fred
Feb 13
ketmar
Feb 13
Token
February 12
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/4etdnc/free_pascal_is_very_super_mega_ultra_underrated/

Ignore the part about Pascal and read the Post by matthieum:

> I have, for my company, been part of a group in charge of exploring the criteria for the inclusion of new languages in the company's set of supported languages.

Here are some of the comments:

> Note that we already rejected D because we did not find it compelling enough. We are not looking for a 10% better language; given the cost of adding a language (as alluded above), which are much more linked to talent management than technological issues, a new language has to:
>
> either cover an area that is ill-covered today (we added Python in the last couple years for this, and Scala is being prototyped for BigData analysis)
>
> or bring a significant benefit it aims at displacing an existing language

This is part of the issues that D faces. Especially that last sentence... "bring a significant benefit".

And some other user his responds:

> D is now more of a research platform for Walter than anything else.

Public image is very important ... Its not the first time stumbling on comments like this.
February 12
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 21:42:25 UTC, Bo wrote:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/4etdnc/free_pascal_is_very_super_mega_ultra_underrated/
>
> Ignore the part about Pascal and read the Post by matthieum:
>
>> [...]
>
> Here are some of the comments:
>
>> [...]
>
> This is part of the issues that D faces. Especially that last sentence... "bring a significant benefit".
>
> And some other user his responds:
>
>> [...]
>
> Public image is very important ... Its not the first time stumbling on comments like this.

So what is your suggested course of action to correct this PR problem?
February 12
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 21:49:00 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:
> So what is your suggested course of action to correct this PR problem?

I have provided several:

* As stated the D its focusing the wrong group of developers
* Too much old baggage and regressions because of it
* Too much complexity from trying to focus on that specific group, who seem to see D as only 10% better and not worth the switch.
* Clear issues in the library that people keep stumbling upon
* Library issues
* Lack of default OFFICIAL libraries like HTTP(s), database access, ...
* Just a long list that is known for years.

Very few with the resources are interested in actually fixing them and they prefer to focus upon BetterC. And discussions about DUB. What else can be said...

And most of the points mentioned above require such a big change, its never going to happen.

How to fix? It only gets fixed when the people above put forward a clear goal for the language. When that is lacking and people move at random like headless chickens with the end result?
February 12
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 22:10:49 UTC, Bo wrote:
> On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 21:49:00 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:
> How to fix? It only gets fixed when the people above put forward a clear goal for the language. When that is lacking and people move at random like headless chickens with the end result?

Bo

why not try, for a change to show a positive attitude
you must of have heard of something good about D that brought you here

D, had a small community, so any contribution you make will be very visible and appreciated

betterC is not a bad initiative, and i dont think we have the right to tell others where to put their effort, its too bossy, and you wouldnt accept it for yourself

I believe the untold D one true calling, is to be a full stack language, used for both high level and low level programming, offering all the programming facilities in one coherent package .. it will take time to get this right

betterC fit well into this, in my opinion, by improving support for the low level parts of a program

There is no train that D, is trying to catch, so take your time with D, continue using the other languages you find more productive or commercial, and  give D 10% of your time

In that time, you can catch a bug, and issue a bug report
Write a missing library
Extend a library

Those are simple suggestions that should be feasible to anyone

Compiler hacking is not for everyone, and I know this can be the source of frustration for many developers, you cant change D, but dont let this consume you

Again consider my suggestion, just give D 10% of your time .. and use it for something positive



February 12
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 22:10:49 UTC, Bo wrote:
> On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 21:49:00 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:
>> So what is your suggested course of action to correct this PR problem?
>
> I have provided several:
>
> * As stated the D its focusing the wrong group of developers
> * Too much old baggage and regressions because of it
> * Too much complexity from trying to focus on that specific group, who seem to see D as only 10% better and not worth the switch.
> * Clear issues in the library that people keep stumbling upon
> * Library issues
> * Lack of default OFFICIAL libraries like HTTP(s), database access, ...
> * Just a long list that is known for years.
>
> Very few with the resources are interested in actually fixing them and they prefer to focus upon BetterC. And discussions about DUB. What else can be said...
>
> And most of the points mentioned above require such a big change, its never going to happen.
>
> How to fix? It only gets fixed when the people above put forward a clear goal for the language. When that is lacking and people move at random like headless chickens with the end result?

Well the issues with Dub are not unrelated to libraries. I'm not sure the answer is to have more official libraries, which just adds more stuff to the list of things that Walter and Andrei don't have time or interest in handling.
February 12
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 22:35:58 UTC, Ali wrote:
> why not try, for a change to show a positive attitude
> you must of have heard of something good about D that brought you here

[...]

> I believe the untold D one true calling, is to be a full stack language, used for both high level and low level programming, offering all the programming facilities in one coherent package .. it will take time to get this right
>
> betterC fit well into this, in my opinion, by improving support for the low level parts of a program
>
> There is no train that D, is trying to catch, so take your time with D, continue using the other languages you find more productive or commercial, and  give D 10% of your time

[...]

> Again consider my suggestion, just give D 10% of your time .. and use it for something positive

All good points!

It seems to me the more D picks up speed, the more newcomers post here complaining about lack of motion. If only they knew...
February 13
Bo wrote:

> This is part of the issues that D faces. Especially that last sentence... "bring a significant benefit".

tbh, the only *real* problem with D that i see is people who thinks that D (and D devs) should do everything to please "business developers". 'cause, you know, there is no sense in language if it is not used by Holy Business. of course, i've never seen the same attitude from the business side (there are some opposite examples, of course, but i'm talking about a big picture).

i absolutely cannot see how pleasing yet another business dev will suddenly do alot of good for D. but i surely see how pleasing business devs will do bad. even trying to please reddit crowd already did alot of damage (@nogc).
February 13
On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:20:53 UTC, ketmar wrote:
> Bo wrote:
>
>> This is part of the issues that D faces. Especially that last sentence... "bring a significant benefit".
>
> tbh, the only *real* problem with D that i see is people who thinks that D (and D devs) should do everything to please "business developers". 'cause, you know, there is no sense in language if it is not used by Holy Business. of course, i've

+1

D should recognize and embrace its nature as research platform/compiler enthusiasts playground favorite.


February 13
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 22:10:49 UTC, Bo wrote:
> * Lack of default OFFICIAL libraries like HTTP(s), database access, ...

Why there should be one default OFFICIAL library for anything? Writing libraries is about choosing between different tradeoffs so no library satisfy all use cases. Also its ecosystem problem not language
February 13
welkam wrote:

> On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 22:10:49 UTC, Bo wrote:
>> * Lack of default OFFICIAL libraries like HTTP(s), database access, ...
>
> Why there should be one default OFFICIAL library for anything?

because Business Developers wants it that way. they are... well... Doing Business, and they wants someone to maintain all the libraries they are using. for free, of course. and what can be better than to offload this burden to language developers?

almost each time we hear about "D should have XXX in standard library", it comes either from Business Developer, or from Business Developer in Disguise. 'cause they always want someone to work for 'em for free.
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