August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 15:18:49 UTC, Ryion wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:49:47 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
>> 1) Anecdotes are not useful here
>> 2) macOS is UNIX, same as Linux, so I'm not sure why the distinction matters as a reply to me
>>
>> Same two points as above.
>
> Thanks for the interesting reply. /S

You're welcome. If you wish for a less interesting reply don't use anectodal evidence or strawmen.
August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:16:20 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:14:16 UTC, Dmitry wrote:
>> [...]
>
> A developer who mostly targets Windows wouldn't. But if you look at the statistics [1] you'd see that in the category of systems accessing the web mobile&tablet systems (and we are excluding servers here, who are virtually all UNIX systems anyway) have been steadily overtaking classic desktop systems in market share, from which it can be reasonably argued that it's only a matter of time until the amount of development for Windows relative to overall development is declining (regardless of how little it already has).
>
> [...]

According to Google on their Android Developers Backstage podcast, the majority of Android Studio users are on Windows.
August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 15:32:07 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:16:20 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
>> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:14:16 UTC, Dmitry wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> A developer who mostly targets Windows wouldn't. But if you look at the statistics [1] you'd see that in the category of systems accessing the web mobile&tablet systems (and we are excluding servers here, who are virtually all UNIX systems anyway) have been steadily overtaking classic desktop systems in market share, from which it can be reasonably argued that it's only a matter of time until the amount of development for Windows relative to overall development is declining (regardless of how little it already has).
>>
>> [...]
>
> According to Google on their Android Developers Backstage podcast, the majority of Android Studio users are on Windows.

Assuming that's accurate it's indeed interesting information about the current state of affairs, though it doesn't answer the question of how that changed over time and how it's going to continue to change (the latter of which being the basis for my speculation).
Have they released that information somewhere officially (with additional information about how they acquired the data, etc.)?
August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 13:54:43 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 07:04:34 UTC, Dmitry wrote:
>> Visual D also has some problems that sensitive for newbies. For example, no DUB support.
>
> What are you talking about? dub generates solution files for visual d. Of course visual d has DUB support, you just have to generate the solution files via command line.

And what then? Later I need add 10 libraries more - what I should to do?

August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:05:31 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> Then Windows users need to start contributing. Good or bad, this is not a company deciding how to allocate developer time, it is a volunteer organization. I see a lot of posts of the form "this isn't what group X expects". The response will never be "okay, we'll put a couple of guys on it".

anwered few posts above
https://forum.dlang.org/post/jzoqudtirjrjdutlabfp@forum.dlang.org
August 06, 2017
And a splendid job Francis is doing. I should be contributing more, but till October, little chance of that.

The project could do with more people working on it. You'll get practice using Kotlin, which is the native code language that will be competing with Go and Rust next year!

All programming languages have a number of niche IDE, but when it comes down to it, traction of a language is really determined by the support in Visual Studio, Eclipse, and IntelliJ IDEA. cf. Go, Rust, Kotlin. Clearly, on proper analysis, this is a correlation rather than a causation, but it is all intimately related. D needs the IntelliJ IDEA, Eclipse, and Visual Studio plugins.


On Sun, 2017-08-06 at 06:07 +0000, Francis Nixon via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> I'm one of the people currently working on the D intellij
> plugin(same username on github). We have a fairly comprehensive
> CONTRIBUTING.md here:
> https://github.com/intellij-dlanguage/intellij-dlanguage/blob/develop/CONTRI
> BUTING.md
> 
> Currently one of the problems I'm having is that D is really complex(I assume everyone else trying to make a good D IDE as this problem). This means features that are deceptively simple, like goto declaration are quite complex. One thing that could really help with this project would be a contributor with experience on the D compiler, which could help with features like goto declaration and code completion. Additionally I suspect that we have mountains of bugs, so it would also be helpful to get lots of user testing.
-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:30:48 UTC, Ryion wrote:
> On my work half the developers are on Mac, the other half are on Windows. There is not a single Linux system. From the windows developers 2 use "bash" on Windows regularly.
Moreover, Macs' popularity may differ a lot in different countries.

> Most firms i have been its always a mix of Windows and Macs. The few Linux guy are die hard fresh from school guys, that are insisted on there Linux system. What some may consider "Ultra Geeks". :-)
>
> It all depends on how you define development. For web development the target is Linux but the development environment is often Windows. So what is the correct a statistical target?
>
> The best view is to see what is going on around one self and its mostly Windows/Mac with Linux deployment/testing for both systems. Windows Bash making that task more easy for the Windows guys.
I see same situation around. But Mac very expensive in my country, so many people often works only on Windows (with Linux environment, like Bash on Windows, etc).

I make games for Windows, iOS, Android and HTML5. And all this I make on Windows, which takes about 99.9% of all time (MacOS used remotely and very rare - for make build for test on real device; etc)
August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 15:43:46 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 15:32:07 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:16:20 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> According to Google on their Android Developers Backstage podcast, the majority of Android Studio users are on Windows.
>
> Assuming that's accurate it's indeed interesting information about the current state of affairs, though it doesn't answer the question of how that changed over time and how it's going to continue to change (the latter of which being the basis for my speculation).
> Have they released that information somewhere officially (with additional information about how they acquired the data, etc.)?

Just on the podcast.

They get the data via Android Studio's telemetry.
August 06, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 16:10:05 UTC, Dmitry wrote:
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 14:05:31 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
>> Then Windows users need to start contributing. Good or bad, this is not a company deciding how to allocate developer time, it is a volunteer organization. I see a lot of posts of the form "this isn't what group X expects". The response will never be "okay, we'll put a couple of guys on it".
>
> anwered few posts above
> https://forum.dlang.org/post/jzoqudtirjrjdutlabfp@forum.dlang.org

Your claim to have limited D skills doesn't prevent you from writing a blog post detailing the things that are missing for Windows development and showing how other languages deal with them. A lot of work with tooling doesn't require D skills for that matter (for instance, Eclipse plugins are not written in D AFAIK). You can ask the current tool developers how to help, report bugs, make suggestions, fix small bugs,.... The least effective thing to do is to post on the forum that the tools aren't good enough.
August 08, 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 19:15:59 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> Your claim to have limited D skills doesn't prevent you from writing a blog post detailing the things that are missing for Windows development and showing how other languages deal with them. A lot of work with tooling doesn't require D skills for that matter (for instance, Eclipse plugins are not written in D AFAIK). You can ask the current tool developers how to help, report bugs, make suggestions, fix small bugs,.... The least effective thing to do is to post on the forum that the tools aren't good enough.

I applaud the people who contribute but reading posts here that pushing people ( on a lot of topics ) to contribute does not exactly motivate. It shows a rather desperation that we do not see in other languages forums.

Having people write plugins is one thing. Having them supporting those plugins for years to come, that is another.

Its not the actual the written the plugins that is a issue. There are plenty of D plugins out there. But people get discourages, lack of time, run into issues they can not figure out, new D version, new IDE changes... whatever changes that break the plugins.

There are plenty of plugins for almost every editor/ide but few are well supported because it ends up being one man development teams. So what is the point in pushing people: write plugins, put time into them, ... when even the people know that with there day job, family life they can not keep supporting / expanding the plugins.

It feels like this approach is just wrong... When people are motivated, they so so from themselves and do not need the "gentle" pushing on a forum to do so.