November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:06:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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Yes, if D ranks its own problems on a list and give them high priority then they can be solved.

If weaknesses are brushed under the carpet, like having a compiler that does not manage memory properly, then they can't solve the problems.

But they should never complain that they lack manpower. I and others with me warned strongly against not giving the highest priority to compiler backed memory management over seven years ago, and made it clear that other (then small) languages would rob them of users and manpower. It was made very explicit, so they knew, but ignored it. It was made clear repeatedly that this outcome was easy to predict. People here think that is trolling. The reality is that when many independently say it in these forums then it is not noise, it is a very strong signal. Because most users who feel the same, don't say it. So if 30 people say it, then maybe 3000 feel it.

Take care, and have fun with D and other languages! You can use as many as you like :-)

I agree with your option.

Few years ago I decide to give up on D runtime and Phobos, at that time I believe it will take decade to match the need I want to do with D.

One can still build ref count betterC with cross platform app, but it is hard and not always get well support from here. better to move on to other language choice.

D want to be betterC, better C++/CLI, better Java. It is better at some point, but not better if you want to made a product most time.

C++/CLI JAVA is replace by GO/Rust in a lot new project/product, there is so much companies refactor they product by GO or Rust.

C++/CLI, Java will not go away, but the market is smaller day by day. D still try to eat this dying market cake, and not get a bite yet.

Rust/GO is product oriented programming, D is NOT.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:06:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 11:09:35 UTC, zjh wrote:

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I hope D can solve its own problems.

But they should never complain that they lack manpower. I and others with me warned strongly against not giving the highest priority to compiler backed memory management over seven years ago, and made it clear that other (then small) languages would rob them of users and manpower. It was made very explicit, so they knew, but ignored it. It was made clear repeatedly that this outcome was easy to predict. People here think that is trolling. The reality is that when many independently say it in these forums then it is not noise, it is a very strong signal. Because most users who feel the same, don't say it. So if 30 people say it, then maybe 3000 feel it.

I think most people ignore your posts mate.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 13:55:51 UTC, workman wrote:

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On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:06:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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[...]

I agree with your option.

[...]

If Rust didn't suck for productivity I would use it. I look at someone doing X in Rust and it takes much longer for them to finish the task than me in D, C# or Scala for example.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 15:20:21 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

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If Rust didn't suck for productivity I would use it. I look at someone doing X in Rust and it takes much longer for them to finish the task than me in D, C# or Scala for example.

Compare (https://github.com/trending/rust https://github.com/trending/c%23 https://github.com/trending/scala) with https://github.com/trending/d.

Rust is made into linux/window kernel, Video compression, Digital Coin, distribute Database/store, AI/Scientific Computing, UI/Browser Engine, Web framework, WASM, Terminal tools/shell, Javascript/type script preprocessing tools, microVM and docker replacement, TLS/SSL/Crypto.

Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Cloudflare/Dropbox/Uber/Netflix/LinkIn has a lot product switch from C/C++ into RUST or GO, and used by real custom.

And there is blooming small companies from China build they product on GO/RUST, like PingCap TiDB and a lot others.

5 years ago there is more job for java/C#/PHP developer, today if you know GO/Javascipt/Rust you will find a job more easely.

I dare to say GO vs D job opportunity is like 10000000 vs 1.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 15:20:21 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

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If Rust didn't suck for productivity I would use it. I look at someone doing X in Rust and it takes much longer for them to finish the task than me in D, C# or Scala for example.

TiDB is a few people build with Go and Rust few years ago, worth 0.34 billion today.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:06:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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People here think that is trolling. The reality is that when many independently say it in these forums then it is not noise, it is a very strong signal.

Non-sequitur.

Most people don't write at all on Internet forums.
You can't be more representative of the general public than other members of this forum while writing about 20% of the words it contains total. That makes you the outlier, not the general public.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 15:44:50 UTC, workman wrote:

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On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 15:20:21 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

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[...]

Compare (https://github.com/trending/rust https://github.com/trending/c%23 https://github.com/trending/scala) with https://github.com/trending/d.

[...]

Sure.

But I didn't say I was interested in making money. I said I was interested in productivity.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 15:44:50 UTC, workman wrote:

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5 years ago there is more job for java/C#/PHP developer, today if you know GO/Javascipt/Rust you will find a job more easely.

I dare to say GO vs D job opportunity is like 10000000 vs 1.

My personal story, might be a bit incidential though: I applied at like 50 programming jobs at Finland, that were using common languages, most often C++ or C# in my case, and got rejected at every single of them. Granted I think it was a close call in a few cases. I have used C# in the past, and considered myself somewhat viable C++ programmer because it's not that different from D, and I have also used it a bit.

Then, the first D workplace I applied to, Symmetry Investments, accepted me. Of course it might have something to do with that it was also the first non-Finnish company I applied to, but still. So much from the theory that D can't get you a job.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 16:32:43 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

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Sure.

But I didn't say I was interested in making money. I said I was interested in productivity.

I am not sure how to quantify productivity, maybe D has more productivity, but has much less product.

November 20

On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 13:27:56 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 12:45:16 UTC, user1234 wrote:

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[...]

I don't think DIPs constitute a method. It also doesn't work all that great for other languages in my opinion. I think even Python is aggregating bloat and complexity now that Guido took the hand of the breaks. Bloat destroys good languages, over time.

You need some kind of structured loop(s), very sketchy:

  1. gather information related to key use cases
  2. analyse
  3. rank and select key problem to be addressed
  4. describe problem, ask for solution propositions (many)
  5. analyse, evaluate, select
  6. make experimental implementations
  7. analyse, evaluate, go back to 3-6 if needed
  8. make a release strategy (minor/major release)
  9. implement, test
  10. collect feedback from end users
  11. analyse, evaluate, go back to 3-10 if needed
  12. polish, deploy, go to 1

That is just for addressing pressing issues, and does not cover strategic planning or quality assurance.

In the sense that a DIP is a specification, the way to implement a new feature should be more straight than by implementing without previous serious reflection on "what's gonna be done".

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