November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

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On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 18:05:38 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

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I just want to give a POV that I think can help lift the number of users.

Doing things with D help lift the number of users.

Constant, harsh, unsubstantiated criticism on the main communication channel (these very forums) for D doesn't help getting more users. No language has an anti-themselves campaign going on for years on their main communication channels.

Imagine you child is bullied at school. Would your idea of helping him is to make public criticism of the many ways he would have to change in order to have friends?
No, this is just bullying, by people who enjoy doing just that.

Sorry but you've totally misunderstood me. I hate bullying and I certainly don't feel as if I'm bullying anyone. Who am I bullying? You can't bully a language so I guess you mean the community. From time to time I explain why I'm not using D myself, even though I'm attracted to it. I'm sorry if it hurts, if I was wrong would it hurt as much? If I'm right, is it better to carry on not knowing, so that you can feel good?

Say you have a store, way out of town. There is no parking there for cars, so the few customers there have come by bicycle. I live in town and know that thousands of people would like the store and use it, if it had parking. Is it wrong of me to drive out to the store, park up quickly on the road, pop in and say to the owners, hey, if you had more parking then I think you'd get many more customers? Is that bullying?

You're lumping me in with the drive-by attention seekers. I guess that's understandable that from your POV I fit the pattern. I get no pleasure from my comment but I do think it's a worthwhile observation to be aware of. The internet is a poor medium for seeing inside other people's heads, and you've definitely msisunderstood what's in mine. At one time, years ago, I put months of my spare time into writing a D wrapper for Qt, you can search my comment history and check on GitHub.

Anyway I don't take it personally, sorry if I hurt you somehow. You shouldn't take it personally either.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

>

On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 18:05:38 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

>

I just want to give a POV that I think can help lift the number of users.

Doing things with D help lift the number of users.

Constant, harsh, unsubstantiated criticism on the main communication channel (these very forums) for D doesn't help getting more users. No language has an anti-themselves campaign going on for years on their main communication channels.

Imagine you child is bullied at school. Would your idea of helping him is to make public criticism of the many ways he would have to change in order to have friends?
No, this is just bullying, by people who enjoy doing just that.

+1

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 09:15:21 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

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I recommend you watch Atila's upcoming DConf Online talk:

https://youtu.be/UqW42_8kn0s

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See the following meeting summary for background:

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/fnzuguuewsvzswpwiwar@forum.dlang.org

Thanks Mike, I will certainly do that. I do enjoy the DConf videos and and I follow the DLF meetings.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:52:04 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

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[...]

Sorry but you've totally misunderstood me. I hate bullying and I certainly don't feel as if I'm bullying anyone. Who am I bullying? You can't bully a language so I guess you mean the community. From time to time I explain why I'm not using D myself, even though I'm attracted to it. I'm sorry if it hurts, if I was wrong would it hurt as much? If I'm right, is it better to carry on not knowing, so that you can feel good?

[...]

It's not about you, but the pattern.

It gets tiresome in the long run.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:49:40 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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You want this yourself. You want to get rid of the "@" in front of attributes.

Aesthetics matter.

They are also highly subjetive and context-dependent. I find "@" to be weirdly cute.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 12:15:02 UTC, Max Samukha wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:49:40 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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You want this yourself. You want to get rid of the "@" in front of attributes.

Aesthetics matter.

They are also highly subjetive and context-dependent. I find "@" to be weirdly cute.

*subjective

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 12:11:48 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

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It's not about you, but the pattern.

The pattern is the result of not having a software development process at the core of the project, not a result of users having expectations.

You raise those expectations in the users by how you present yourself.

Users are the environment.

You have to adapt and change your own behaviour if you are a developer, service provider, foundation.

You cannot change the users. Only changes to the product, the process, the communication can change the pattern.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 12:15:02 UTC, Max Samukha wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:49:40 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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You want this yourself. You want to get rid of the "@" in front of attributes.

Aesthetics matter.

They are also highly subjetive and context-dependent. I find "@" to be weirdly cute.

Yes, this is where usability studies with real programmers can help. :-)

Probably never been done with D.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 12:11:48 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:52:04 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

>

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

>

[...]

Sorry but you've totally misunderstood me. I hate bullying and I certainly don't feel as if I'm bullying anyone. Who am I bullying? You can't bully a language so I guess you mean the community. From time to time I explain why I'm not using D myself, even though I'm attracted to it. I'm sorry if it hurts, if I was wrong would it hurt as much? If I'm right, is it better to carry on not knowing, so that you can feel good?

[...]

It's not about you, but the pattern.

It gets tiresome in the long run.

Yes I understand.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:36:48 UTC, zjh wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

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Imagine you child is bullied at school. Would your idea of helping him is to make public criticism of the many ways he would have to change in order to have friends?
No, this is just bullying, by people who enjoy doing just that.

We should collect criticism,
If you want to criticize, please see whether the opinion has been put forward.

Yeah, I wouldn't want the forums to be a place like "we do not tolerate dissent". It's just that unrelenting criticism that repeats the same things over and over again gets a little boring to read...

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