November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 13:07:04 UTC, jmh530 wrote:

>

Yeah, I wouldn't want the forums to be a place like "we do not tolerate dissent". It's just that unrelenting criticism that repeats the same things over and over again gets a little boring to read...

D should make good use of the forum.
Now the forum resources are not well utilized.
Many people repeat his opinion over and over again.
But others still don't know your point of view.

November 19
On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 08:07:11 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> Look up Group Think. The road to hell is paved with good intensions.

No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 13:07:04 UTC, jmh530 wrote:

>

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:36:48 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

>

Imagine you child is bullied at school. Would your idea of helping him is to make public criticism of the many ways he would have to change in order to have friends?
No, this is just bullying, by people who enjoy doing just that.

We should collect criticism,
If you want to criticize, please see whether the opinion has been put forward.

Yeah, I wouldn't want the forums to be a place like "we do not tolerate dissent". It's just that unrelenting criticism that repeats the same things over and over again gets a little boring to read...

Part of the problem here, I think, is that people are more strongly motivated to speak up about their opinions when there is something they are unsatisfied with. So discussions like this will be biased towards the things people don't like about D, even if they are relatively happy with the language overall.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

>

On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 18:05:38 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

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I just want to give a POV that I think can help lift the number of users.

Doing things with D help lift the number of users.

Constant, harsh, unsubstantiated criticism on the main communication channel (these very forums) for D doesn't help getting more users. No language has an anti-themselves campaign going on for years on their main communication channels.

Imagine you child is bullied at school. Would your idea of helping him is to make public criticism of the many ways he would have to change in order to have friends?
No, this is just bullying, by people who enjoy doing just that.

Amen. This is exactly what happens here.

November 19
On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 14:37:51 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
> On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:24:15 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:
>> On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 18:05:38 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> _Doing things with D_ help lift the number of users.
>>
>> Constant, harsh, unsubstantiated criticism on the main communication channel (these very forums) for D doesn't help getting more users. No language has an anti-themselves campaign going on for years on their main communication channels.
>>
>> Imagine you child is bullied at school. Would your idea of helping him is to _make public criticism of the many ways he would have to change in order to have friends_?
>> No, this is just bullying, by people who enjoy doing just that.
>
> Amen. This is exactly what happens here.

You are really sure about that?

https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html


November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 14:05:17 UTC, Paul Backus wrote:

>

Part of the problem here, I think, is that people are more strongly motivated to speak up about their opinions when there is something they are unsatisfied with. So discussions like this will be biased towards the things people don't like about D, even if they are relatively happy with the language overall.

Actually, the biggest problem for the decision makers of D is that the average person who does use D from time to time never speaks up about what they are happy/unhappy with. So there is a big silent majority.

I didn't read the D forums for years. Random incident that I did. I only started to write here because Manu tried to argue for a direction that would make D better for systems development. So I wanted to back him. If Manu had not been persistent in his quest, then I'd probably would have put D back in the drawer for good.

It is of course possible to continue to make decisions based on the tiny hardcore that populate the forums, but then you won't have an ecosystem. And well, what is the point of having powerful meta-programming if there are no frameworks (except vibe.d) that are built with it?

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 13:59:04 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 08:07:11 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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Look up Group Think. The road to hell is paved with good intensions.

No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…

I wish you well with your democratic endeavour. It will be interesting to see what you achieve!

There are techniques to avoid Group Think, but one has to be aware of the phenomenon and take the appropriate steps. You can do that.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 11:52:04 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

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Anyway I don't take it personally, sorry if I hurt you somehow. You shouldn't take it personally either.

I'm not specifically talking about you, or your posts, or this thread, more as an overview of the similar threads going on.

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 13:59:04 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote:

>

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 08:07:11 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

>

Look up Group Think. The road to hell is paved with good intensions.

No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…

Also, if you haven't already read this book, consider borrowing it from a library:

Forsyth, Group Dynamics

It gives perspectives on dynamics in groups that can be useful, based on research. I've seen it used in psychology and software process improvement classes. It won't give you answers, but if you haven't read a similar book before you might view dynamics in groups differently after reading it.

I hope you take no offence at this suggestion, but setting up a group for the purpose you suggest is challenging. For instance, if you have only one member with a computer science background in the group, then that member might get undue influence (for good or worse).

I totally believe you can do this, but you have to think ahead about what can happen, I think.

November 19

Nim forums are moderated: https://forum.nim-lang.org/
Rust forums are moderated: https://users.rust-lang.org/
Go forums are moderated: https://forum.golangbridge.org/
If you browse them, I doubt you will find the kind of systematic negativity one can find here.

If you enjoy reading HN and Reddit, it's also because they are heavily moderated.

This is just my opinion, but I think the moderation on the D forums should be a bit more ban-happy.

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