November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 16:30:14 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

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This is just my opinion, but I think the moderation on the D forums should be a bit more ban-happy.

The best moderation is done by moderators that are actively participating and diffusing conflict. Or just close threads that have become unproductive. Or move threads to an off-topic forum.

Flamewars tend to arise from misinterpretation or just two people being tired after work, divorce or whatever… But there aren't actually many flamewars in the D forums. Just strategic disagreement, passionate disagreement.

You have many people being passionate because they want to write beautiful code. And well, a simpler language than C++ allows your write more beautiful code. Maybe that is also why you use D daily. Maybe most of those that you would ban actually are in agreement with you if you sat down around a coffee table? Maybe they get frustrated after several years, because they cannot do like you, write beautiful code every day?

I don't know.

The only thing I know is that I appreciate that D now is on track to become what I was looking for many years ago. Despite it happening in slow motion.

I am not unhappy with that. I would be much more happy with a D3, because then things would not move in slow motion.

But I don't depend on D and totally understand that you and others have more reasons to feel passionate about D2 as it is today than those of use that only have D as a hobby.

Anyway, I am pretty sure that if you, I and the OP sat down around a coffee-table, then we would agree on most things if we shared our perspectives face to face. Maybe we can do that one day.

Cheers!

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 16:30:14 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

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Nim forums are moderated: https://forum.nim-lang.org/
Rust forums are moderated: https://users.rust-lang.org/
Go forums are moderated: https://forum.golangbridge.org/
If you browse them, I doubt you will find the kind of systematic negativity one can find here.

If you enjoy reading HN and Reddit, it's also because they are heavily moderated.

This is just my opinion, but I think the moderation on the D forums should be a bit more ban-happy.

That Nim moderation thread... That one guy is a little too insane, yikes D:

November 19

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 16:47:33 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 16:30:14 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:

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[...]

The best moderation is done by moderators that are actively participating and diffusing conflict. Or just close threads that have become unproductive. Or move threads to an off-topic forum.

[...]

Maybe you just have to wait until Dconf can be held physically again :P

November 20

On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 17:50:36 UTC, Tejas wrote:

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Maybe you just have to wait until Dconf can be held physically again :P

Maybe, but I don't think those that go to conferences represent the majority. C++ conference presentations often show more high level code than people usually write... A distorted reality.

What people in the D-forums don't get is that people who come to complain on the forums and are perceived as detractors actually represent that silent majority that never visit the forums, but who want a completed system level development language solution, not a glorified scripting language for scientific computing. There is no future for D in that (too many competing solutions backed by arrays of GPUs in the cloud).

The regulars on language forums tend to be die-hard-fans, which leads to a distorted picture of reality. You can of course ban the signal of frustration, and create an echo chamber, but then there is no reality check feedback in the loop. And the language fades away and becomes a relic of the past. Like most languages. It is not unusual, it is typical.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 10:49:08 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

Anyway, I like D.
I hope D can solve its own problems.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 11:09:35 UTC, zjh wrote:

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I hope D can solve its own problems.

Yes, if D ranks its own problems on a list and give them high priority then they can be solved.

If weaknesses are brushed under the carpet, like having a compiler that does not manage memory properly, then they can't solve the problems.

But they should never complain that they lack manpower. I and others with me warned strongly against not giving the highest priority to compiler backed memory management over seven years ago, and made it clear that other (then small) languages would rob them of users and manpower. It was made very explicit, so they knew, but ignored it. It was made clear repeatedly that this outcome was easy to predict. People here think that is trolling. The reality is that when many independently say it in these forums then it is not noise, it is a very strong signal. Because most users who feel the same, don't say it. So if 30 people say it, then maybe 3000 feel it.

Take care, and have fun with D and other languages! You can use as many as you like :-)

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:06:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

D's mistake is superstitious GC.
Many other small language users used to use d. Disappointed and left.
D should listen to the right opinion. Many people's opinions are just misleading.
D now should be careful, not to make any big mistakes.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:18:49 UTC, zjh wrote:

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On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:06:35 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

D's mistake is superstitious GC.
Many other small language users used to use d. Disappointed and left.
D should listen to the right opinion. Many people's opinions are just misleading.
D now should be careful, not to make any big mistakes.

Yes, but you should not expect it to change soon. That will make you miserable. So, take a break if you feel disappointed. Have fun with other languages and come back next year and see if things fit you better. :-)

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 12:27:46 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

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Have fun with other languages and come back next year and see if things fit you better. :-)

what D needed is reasonable organization.
Not only organize people, but also organize code/articles/forum informations/links etc.
With effective organization, combat effectiveness can be doubled.

Other languages don't look good. I'm not used to using them.The beauty of language is also combat effectiveness.

November 20

On Saturday, 20 November 2021 at 13:01:59 UTC, zjh wrote:

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what D needed is reasonable organization.
Not only organize people, but also organize code/articles/forum informations/links etc.
With effective organization, combat effectiveness can be doubled.

Yes, I am sure that everyone would be very happy if you wrote such items! Maybe more people in your country would discover the language? Such a large country, with many clever people, can make a major impact, I think. If you bring more people to the language, that think the same way as you do yourself, then that can change the direction over time. Just be patient. I had a chinese girlfriend a long time ago, and since then I always have felt more connected to your country, even though is is far away. I would love to see more chinese D programmers! :-D

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