April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 09:22:12 UTC, evilrat wrote:

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On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 06:35:25 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

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On Sunday, 25 April 2021 at 19:41:39 UTC, russhy wrote:

> >

We already have zig and rust, adding yet another fancy slick no GC landuage is dead end.

Same defeatist mentality i keep reading here, this is not what D need

>

So please stop your no-GC whine. People already heard you, more than once too.

I will never stop fighting for D from the people who wants to ruin it with more GC

D is open source, you are free to take care of your special flavoured D.

There is already Volt language, and Odin and Zig languages which is very D inspired and "simple" compared to D, there is a lot to choose from.
But Take GC from D and you get C2 language (guess where it is now? oh I've heard they given up and started C3 language which is even better than C2, fantastic!), and there was even more "simple" C-- (C minus minus) language, but can you guess where it is now?
Or maybe he want to repeat Python 2 vs 3 story? That was almost killed entire language. D just can't afford switching direction amid its course. But what if this really necessary? Ok, why not, just put it under a new name. But don't touch the original.

That guy teaches us about how bad GC is and provides nonsensical examples of how brave developers avoid GC by all means because of just how evil it is, meanwhile Unity have been working just fine on mobile for 10+ years, and UE4 works just fine (CPU performance wise) on average 4 years old smartphone.

I also like how he hijacked the thread and expects answers from Walter and Andrey who never showed up in the thread. He demands from them make something because he wanted it.
That's definitely not going to work.

If he is so serious about reducing GC dependency he could probably start patching phobos with no-GC functionality to be on par, that would be at least useful, but in the long run it will just add clutter, technical debt and bloat(omg!).
To make phobos usable with @nogc it would need some serious rethinking, research and planning. It is not just "remove GC" and done, this will require adding monads and stuff, pattern matching, and more. The result will probably end up look like Rust too.

Again, this shows how little you know

UE4 GC is fine if you make a hello world, ask every studios what they have to do to workaround the GC, they wish it didn't exist, and Epic is working on ditching the GC with their upcoming data oriented stack, just like Unity is working on ditching the GC with their HPC#/Burst solutions

So little do you know that it makes people believe GC is fine

This is why we can't have nice things, and this is why people are coming up with new languages instead of embracing Dlang, you guys make bad press for D, you are not pragmatic enough

and i never said ditch the GC, you do what ever you want, but the language shouldn't expect you to use a GC, it should expect you to provide what ever allocator is proper for the task

April 26
>

Or maybe he want to repeat Python 2 vs 3 story? That was almost killed entire language.

Python3 is what saved Python

Its problem were the same people as you, the people who refuses to understand what is wrong with the language

Now python3 is experiencing a new youth, thanks to the people who decided it was time to start fresh for more decades of growing user adoption

April 26
> >

meanwhile Unity have been working just fine on mobile for 10+ years

LOL, wonder how it works fine on mobile? by avoiding the GC and doing manual memory management (object pooling -- aka custom allocators)

Woawoawoa, who would have thought that Unity recomands to avoid the GC in order to gain stable perf on device constrained devices, woawoaw

Same goes for Unreal

What have you done with D, other than cli tools?

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:43:21 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:

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On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:40:18 UTC, russhy wrote:

>

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 06:35:25 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

>

On Sunday, 25 April 2021 at 19:41:39 UTC, russhy wrote:

> >

We already have zig and rust, adding yet another fancy slick no GC landuage is dead end.

Same defeatist mentality i keep reading here, this is not what D need

>

So please stop your no-GC whine. People already heard you, more than once too.

I will never stop fighting for D from the people who wants to ruin it with more GC

D is open source, you are free to take care of your special flavoured D.

say this to the people who want to ruin D with more GC, they are free to make their own fork caleld DJava

This is just pure GC phobia at this point of time.

-Alex

Not, i never said GC is useless, i said the language shouldn't expect a GC to exists, it should ask you to provide what ever allocation scheme you need for the task

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:54:47 UTC, russhy wrote:

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On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:43:21 UTC, 12345swordy wrote:

>

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:40:18 UTC, russhy wrote:

>

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 06:35:25 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

>

On Sunday, 25 April 2021 at 19:41:39 UTC, russhy wrote:

> >

We already have zig and rust, adding yet another fancy slick no GC landuage is dead end.

Same defeatist mentality i keep reading here, this is not what D need

>

So please stop your no-GC whine. People already heard you, more than once too.

I will never stop fighting for D from the people who wants to ruin it with more GC

D is open source, you are free to take care of your special flavoured D.

say this to the people who want to ruin D with more GC, they are free to make their own fork caleld DJava

This is just pure GC phobia at this point of time.

-Alex

Not, i never said GC is useless, i said the language shouldn't expect a GC to exists, it should ask you to provide what ever allocation scheme you need for the task
That is just pure nonsense. Having the gc built into the language have noticeable benefits.

-Alex

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:44:36 UTC, russhy wrote:

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On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 09:22:12 UTC, evilrat wrote:

>

[...]

Again, this shows how little you know

UE4 GC is fine if you make a hello world, ask every studios what they have to do to workaround the GC, they wish it didn't exist, and Epic is working on ditching the GC with their upcoming data oriented stack, just like Unity is working on ditching the GC with their HPC#/Burst solutions

[...]

From "Unity Future .NET Development Status"

>

But we have also a longer term idea in the future to "combine" Burst+IL2CPP effort and to push for the best .NET AOT experience for Unity apps. This AOT solution could be considered as a Tiered level 4 compilation compatible with CoreCLR. But before going there, we will have quite some work ahead, as highlighted by @JoshPeterson in the original post above.

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-future-net-development-status.1092205/#post-7035031

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:51:29 UTC, russhy wrote:

> > >

meanwhile Unity have been working just fine on mobile for 10+ years

LOL, wonder how it works fine on mobile? by avoiding the GC and doing manual memory management (object pooling -- aka custom allocators)

Woawoawoa, who would have thought that Unity recomands to avoid the GC in order to gain stable perf on device constrained devices, woawoaw

Same goes for Unreal

What have you done with D, other than cli tools?

Android seems to be doing just fine with its 80% world wide market share.

And ChromeOS isn't doing badly in US school market.

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:48:23 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

>

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:51:29 UTC, russhy wrote:

> > >

meanwhile Unity have been working just fine on mobile for 10+ years

LOL, wonder how it works fine on mobile? by avoiding the GC and doing manual memory management (object pooling -- aka custom allocators)

Woawoawoa, who would have thought that Unity recomands to avoid the GC in order to gain stable perf on device constrained devices, woawoaw

Same goes for Unreal

What have you done with D, other than cli tools?

Android seems to be doing just fine with its 80% world wide market share.

And ChromeOS isn't doing badly in US school market.

Yeah that is why nobody uses D for android apps

And that is why nobody uses D for ChromeOS

And that is why nobody uses D for gamedev

and the list continues

--

That is also why Android apps require 2x the amount of memory/cpu/battery than equivalent on iOS

Sure GC is fine, if your quality standard is bellow 0

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:42:22 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

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On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 13:44:36 UTC, russhy wrote:

>

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 09:22:12 UTC, evilrat wrote:

>

[...]

Again, this shows how little you know

UE4 GC is fine if you make a hello world, ask every studios what they have to do to workaround the GC, they wish it didn't exist, and Epic is working on ditching the GC with their upcoming data oriented stack, just like Unity is working on ditching the GC with their HPC#/Burst solutions

[...]

From "Unity Future .NET Development Status"

>

But we have also a longer term idea in the future to "combine" Burst+IL2CPP effort and to push for the best .NET AOT experience for Unity apps. This AOT solution could be considered as a Tiered level 4 compilation compatible with CoreCLR. But before going there, we will have quite some work ahead, as highlighted by @JoshPeterson in the original post above.

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-future-net-development-status.1092205/#post-7035031

Unity DOTS doesn't use the GC, AT ALL

You guys never made a game or a game engine and you are telling me GC is fine

Sure, sure, GC will save us, but it needs to pause the world first

April 26

On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 15:30:48 UTC, russhy wrote:

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You guys never made a game or a game engine and you are telling me GC is fine

Which games have you made?

I made a buggy version of Minesweeper once. You can play it online actually http://webassembly.arsdnet.net/minesweeper

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