On 2013-05-21 20:44, Adam Wilson wrote:

> Indeed, it does not, and I hope I didn't try to sound like I was saying
> it did. Markup is just one way to express the UI. DSL's are another.
> Personally I prefer the DSL approach, as it is usually more compact.

I have no problem with markup or DSL, as long as a GUI builder can handle it.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Tue, 21 May 2013 14:31:53 +0200
"Diggory" <diggsey@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> The point is we don't need to have a date picker and color picker and every other control built in, at least not initially. All we need is an easily extensible framework with the simple controls, and then we can add more complicated controls as they are requested.

That's certainly a good approach, but it does need to be fairly pro-active on the developer's part: Unless there's already a solid user base, most people aren't going to bother requesting what they want, they'll just move on to something else.

On 2013-05-21 20:48, Adam Wilson wrote:

> Controls will be completely "lookless". So a control is simply a class
> in code with no associated styling whatsoever. That means that "look" is
> defined entirely with styles. This presents us with the flexibility to
> automatically load the correct look and behavior for a platform by
> default, and then let the user override it with his own styles should he
> choose to do so.
>
> In this plan styles, as with CSS, include much of the styling behavior too.

I mean how the controls will behave, not the style. I.e. Windows doesn't support click/scroll through while most other systems do.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2013-05-21 14:31, Diggory wrote:

> I had support for custom dialogs, drawing etc. and file dialogs were
> built in so it was possible to create your own color picker, etc. in a
> very few lines of code. The way it was designed, custom field formatters
> were trivial. The point is we don't need to have a date picker and color
> picker and every other control built in, at least not initially. All we
> need is an easily extensible framework with the simple controls, and
> then we can add more complicated controls as they are requested. Once
> the framework is in place it will be very easy for many people to
> contribute and everything will get done much more quickly.

I would expect that the system needs to be designed from the ground up with support for something like internationalization. There are probably other features were this is true as well.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Tue, 21 May 2013 20:55:11 +0200
Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:
> 
> I mean how the controls will behave, not the style. I.e. Windows doesn't support click/scroll through while most other systems do.
> 

What do you mean by "click/scroll through"?

On Tue, 21 May 2013 14:12:11 +0200
Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:
> 
> I think you underestimate what's needed and the controls people want to have. Did you have date picker, color picker, support for internationalization, field formatters and so on.
> 

Speaking of, what is the current state-of-the-art for i18n? Basically just tables of format strings looked up by language and a phrase identifier?

Like (more or less):

assert("Hello $name" == i18n[US_ENGLISH][HELLO]);

?


I do know of at least one way *not* to do it. I once worked at a VB6 company where their idea of i18n was:

XLate("You have ") + numOranges + XLate(" oranges.")

Sooooo many things wrong with that...

On 2013-05-21 21:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> What do you mean by "click/scroll through"?

I can scroll in a window while having another window selected. I think I read you had a tool/application for that on Windows.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 18:59:08 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> I would expect that the system needs to be designed from the ground up with support for something like internationalization. There are probably other features were this is true as well.

Of course, although I think internationalization is actually not one of them.

We could implement something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettext in D which would be great because unlike Gettext we wouldn't have to have a separate compiler to generate the equivalent of the .pot file, we should be able to do that as part of the normal compilation process.

On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:44:30 +0200
Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:

> On 2013-05-21 21:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> 
> > What do you mean by "click/scroll through"?
> 
> I can scroll in a window while having another window selected. I think I read you had a tool/application for that on Windows.
> 

Oh, yea. That's one of my biggest annoyances on Windows. Makes no sense, and only ever gets in the way. I use the freeware KatMouse to fix that:

http://ehiti.de/katmouse/

It works great on XP, but on Win7 it only works about half the time (even on the same program: it'll work one day, then have no effect another time, and then work again some other time). Doesn't work at all on Claws Mail, I suspect this may be an incompatibility with GTK programs in general since they reinvent all the UI controls.

Unfortunately, KatMouse appears to be both abandonware (last update was
2007) and closed-source.

(I've never understood why people make closed-source freeware: Closed-source commercial, ok. OSS, ok. But closed-source freeware? Seems kinda pointless.)

On Tue, 21 May 2013 17:38:15 -0400
Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe@semitwist.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:44:30 +0200
> Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 2013-05-21 21:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> > 
> > > What do you mean by "click/scroll through"?
> > 
> > I can scroll in a window while having another window selected. I think I read you had a tool/application for that on Windows.
> > 
> 
> Oh, yea. That's one of my biggest annoyances on Windows. Makes no sense, and only ever gets in the way. I use the freeware KatMouse to fix that:
> 
> http://ehiti.de/katmouse/
> 
> It works great on XP, but on Win7 it only works about half the time (even on the same program: it'll work one day, then have no effect another time, and then work again some other time). Doesn't work at all on Claws Mail, I suspect this may be an incompatibility with GTK programs in general since they reinvent all the UI controls.
> 
> Unfortunately, KatMouse appears to be both abandonware (last update
> was 2007) and closed-source.
> 
> (I've never understood why people make closed-source freeware: Closed-source commercial, ok. OSS, ok. But closed-source freeware? Seems kinda pointless.)
> 

Strange, it seems to be working in Claws Mail now...

Oh, wait, now that I think about it, it wasn't KatMouse that didn't work with Claws Mail, it was my touchpad's "circular motion to scroll" feature. That's a great feature when I don't have my trackball plugged into my laptop.