Charles wrote:
>>Correct...
>>Lift=Cl * 0.5 * Rho * speed^2 * Surface
>>Also...
>>Drag=Cd * 0.5 * Rho * speed^2 * Surface
> 
> 
> Cool!  Where did you get this formula ?

Those are the basic forluma's for Lift and Drag of an aircraft.
In college, about 20 years ago, they drilled those in my head. They have been in there ever since.



-- 
ManiaC++
Jan Knepper

Walter wrote:

> But seriously, if the Wrights hadn't done it, someone else would have
> eventually, probably by 1910. (By 1908 european aviation, developing
> independently since Santos Dumont's 1906 flight, still hadn't added roll
> control, and didn't until the Wrights demonstrated the enormous advantage of
> it in european air shows. Roll control seems painfully obvious to us now,
> but events of the time showed that it wasn't obvious at all.)

Well, you would be surprized how many remote controlled beginners are out there learning to fly plaines without roll controls.
I have flown with remote controlled aircraft as well. I didn't even want to go there without roll control. ;-)

-- 
ManiaC++
Jan Knepper

Just for the sake of throwing more names into the ring. Last week there was a documentory on the BBC about a British pioneer of flight by the name of Percy Pilcher. He was considered to be the successor to Lilienthal, but met the same fate (Both died in glider accidents). However, Pilcher was only flying his glider, called the Hawk because the engine for his triplane had broken down, and he needed something to show the potencial investors he had invited along to the demonstration.

For the documentory, they built a plane that was as close to Pilcher's design as they could get, and it flew for well over a minute on the third attempt.

Pilcher Died in 1899, and therefore he could of flown before the Wright Brothers.

*IF* his plane was really like the one they built for the documentary, and it is a pretty big if, as there are no complete plans or photographs of Pilcher's craft, and the replica was based on descriptions. One can't help thinking that in building the replica in the way that they did, that what the produced was a modern plane in the Pilcher style.

So there you go...

Alix...

Jan Knepper wrote:

> Walter wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I thought I remembered that they had it on film...
>>
>>
>>
>> To celebrate the anniversary, I put it on www.digitalmars.com <g>.
>
>
> Thanks! Will take a look at it!
>
>>> An other issue is that the Wright brothers continued to work on planes
>>> and and became more and more successful. If I remember correctly they
>>> actually got involved with the army. I think a rather highly placed
>>> officer died in on of their test flights...
>>
>>
>> Isn't it ironic that the other claimants to first flight apparently
>> abandoned their quest at their moment of triumph? Another common
>> characteristic of the other first flighters is that none of them contributed
>> a single principle to aeronautical engineering, whereas the Wrights
>> contributed several still in use today.
>
>
> Exactly my point... Obviously they had some success and were not discouraged by any setbacks...
>


-- 
           Alix Pexton
Webmaster - http://www.theDjournal.com

           Alix@theDjournal.com

"Alix Pexton" <Alix@thedjournal.com> wrote in message news:bs27bi$64q$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Just for the sake of throwing more names into the ring. Last week there was a documentory on the BBC about a British pioneer of flight by the name of Percy Pilcher. He was considered to be the successor to Lilienthal, but met the same fate (Both died in glider accidents). However, Pilcher was only flying his glider, called the Hawk because the engine for his triplane had broken down, and he needed something to show the potencial investors he had invited along to the demonstration.
>
> For the documentory, they built a plane that was as close to Pilcher's design as they could get, and it flew for well over a minute on the third attempt.
>
> Pilcher Died in 1899, and therefore he could of flown before the Wright Brothers.
>
> *IF* his plane was really like the one they built for the documentary, and it is a pretty big if, as there are no complete plans or photographs of Pilcher's craft, and the replica was based on descriptions. One can't help thinking that in building the replica in the way that they did, that what the produced was a modern plane in the Pilcher style.
>
> So there you go...

I read the transcript. Given all the improvements they made, it's pretty obvious that Pilcher's original plane would not have flown. To fly, 3 problems needed to be solved - lift, control, and power. Pilcher didn't solve any of them. Of course, he might have if he'd lived. But history is full of what might have beens if only...

"Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean@verizon.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:brvkii$283s$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> According to last month's Scientific American magazine (Dec 2003), Alberto-Santos-Dumont made the first *public* demonstration of flight in a field on Nov 12, 1906, and flew for 722 feet.  Because there was no proof
to
> the contrary at the time, he was hailed as the first man to fly.  "His

Being a dane I also think the danish inventor Ellehammer deserves some credit :-). He got airborne a few weeks before Dumont but he lacked proper steering control of the plane.

various claims to first flight: http://100aviators.netfirms.com/contro.html

Mikkel

My Grandfather built a plane in 1919 which he called "Silver Wings."

This is no claim on the Wright Brothers but it was probably the first all plywood constructed plane built in Australia and he did it in a horse and chaff shed.  The 70HP v8 Renault motor is now in the Moorabbin Air Museum in Melbourne and my Uncle still has the original four bladed hand made propella (the family still can't convince him to donate it to the museum).  Not bad when you consider grandpa built most of the tools he needed to build the airplane.

Simon

Bono Vox wrote:
> A little correction :-)
> 
> The first flight was made by Santos Dummondt in Paris in 1903 before the
> brothers Wright. In this ocasion the "14bis" has landed from a field near Paris
> by itselt cross Paris turned around the Eiffel tower and came back to the field.
> Yes, I know you learn in the school about the first fly being made by the Wright
> Brothers. And yes, I know you will not believe about them "airplane" has flouth
> after, used a catapult to land and do not turn to any side.
> 
> -jr
> 
> 

In article <brvkii$283s$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...
>
>According to last month's Scientific American magazine (Dec 2003), Alberto-Santos-Dumont made the first *public* demonstration of flight in a field on Nov 12, 1906, and flew for 722 feet.  Because there was no proof to the contrary at the time, he was hailed as the first man to fly.  "His countrymen today still revere Santos-Dumont as the Father of Aviation."  But in Dec 17, 1903, the Wright Brothers had flown a powered, heavier-than-air plane 852 feet in controlled, sustained flight... unfortunately they were very secretive, and would not allow the press or spectators to witness their success.  Earlier that same day, the "first" flight considered successful, was only 120 feet.  They, however, were certainly not the first men to fly... men had been flying since 1783, in balloons and gliders.  By 1903, powered balloon flights and glider soaring were commonplace... what they did not have was powered, controlled flight in a heavier-than-air machine. Clement Ader can be credited with the first powered takeoff in 1890, but his steam-powered aircraft reached an altitude of eight inches, sufficient to classify it as a flight only to his French countrymen.  Even New Zealand got into the air before us:  Richard Pearse, in March 1903, flew a bamboo-and-canvas monoplane about 450 feet before crashing into a gorse hedge, which doesn't really meet the definition of "controlled flight".  ;)
>
>Seems to be an interesting story.  You may want to read it.
>
>Sean
>
>
>"Bono Vox" <bono@art.com> wrote in message news:brv5dr$1g1e$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> A little correction :-)
>>
>> The first flight was made by Santos Dummondt in Paris in 1903 before the brothers Wright. In this ocasion the "14bis" has landed from a field near
>Paris
>> by itselt cross Paris turned around the Eiffel tower and came back to the
>field.
>> Yes, I know you learn in the school about the first fly being made by the
>Wright
>> Brothers. And yes, I know you will not believe about them "airplane" has
>flouth
>> after, used a catapult to land and do not turn to any side.
>>
>> -jr
>
>

In article <brvkii$283s$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...
>
>According to last month's Scientific American magazine (Dec 2003), Alberto-Santos-Dumont made the first *public* demonstration of flight in a field on Nov 12, 1906, and flew for 722 feet.  Because there was no proof to the contrary at the time, he was hailed as the first man to fly.  "His countrymen today still revere Santos-Dumont as the Father of Aviation."  But in Dec 17, 1903, the Wright Brothers had flown a powered, heavier-than-air plane 852 feet in controlled, sustained flight... unfortunately they were very secretive, and would not allow the press or spectators to witness their success.  Earlier that same day, the "first" flight considered successful, was only 120 feet.  They, however, were certainly not the first men to fly... men had been flying since 1783, in balloons and gliders.  By 1903, powered balloon flights and glider soaring were commonplace... what they did not have was powered, controlled flight in a heavier-than-air machine. Clement Ader can be credited with the first powered takeoff in 1890, but his steam-powered aircraft reached an altitude of eight inches, sufficient to classify it as a flight only to his French countrymen.  Even New Zealand got into the air before us:  Richard Pearse, in March 1903, flew a bamboo-and-canvas monoplane about 450 feet before crashing into a gorse hedge, which doesn't really meet the definition of "controlled flight".  ;)
>
>Seems to be an interesting story.  You may want to read it.
>
>Sean
>
>
>"Bono Vox" <bono@art.com> wrote in message news:brv5dr$1g1e$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> A little correction :-)
>>
>> The first flight was made by Santos Dummondt in Paris in 1903 before the brothers Wright. In this ocasion the "14bis" has landed from a field near
>Paris
>> by itselt cross Paris turned around the Eiffel tower and came back to the
>field.
>> Yes, I know you learn in the school about the first fly being made by the
>Wright
>> Brothers. And yes, I know you will not believe about them "airplane" has
>flouth
>> after, used a catapult to land and do not turn to any side.
>>
>> -jr
>
>

Funny how anyone can claim an invention after someone else already proved it its own, in public! No one can believe the Wrights were the inventors, since an airplane flies on its own and can never be dependent on prevailing winds, catapult, or any other external aid!

In article <bs0glt$ho1$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Jan Knepper says...
>
>Walter wrote:
>>>
>>>I thought I remembered that they had it on film...
>> 
>> 
>> To celebrate the anniversary, I put it on www.digitalmars.com <g>.
>
>Thanks! Will take a look at it!
>
>>>An other issue is that the Wright brothers continued to work on planes and and became more and more successful. If I remember correctly they actually got involved with the army. I think a rather highly placed officer died in on of their test flights...
>> 
>> Isn't it ironic that the other claimants to first flight apparently abandoned their quest at their moment of triumph? Another common characteristic of the other first flighters is that none of them contributed a single principle to aeronautical engineering, whereas the Wrights contributed several still in use today.
>
>Exactly my point... Obviously they had some success and were not discouraged by any setbacks...
>
>-- 
>ManiaC++
>Jan Knepper

Santos-Dumont did not abandon building airplanes after the 14-Bis. Everyone knows about his Demoiselles, the world's first ever production airplanes.

Arsenio wrote:
> Santos-Dumont did not abandon building airplanes after the 14-Bis. Everyone knows about his Demoiselles, the world's first ever production airplanes.

I guess it is not everyone as several people here on this forum did not know if it at all was *before* the B^HWright brothers...


-- 
ManiaC++
Jan Knepper

But as for me and my household, we shall use Mozilla...
www.mozilla.org