In article <ch4u27$2dar$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John Reimer says...
>
> I would have even preferred learning it [D] before learned C. But the process of learning C gives one more of an
>opportunity to understand basic low-level computer function.

I think the only reason not to start with D is the lack of absolute beginer tutorials.

(the web page should be changed.)

Ant

>The last several times I've been asked about "What is a decent very first programming language?", I've found myself recommending Javascript. IMHO, it has these advantages:
>
>* less to learn to get "Hello, World" to show up
>* fewer tools to learn and setup
>* often immediately useful for work or school
>* often advantageous for career advancement
>* syntactically/semantically somewhat like C and D
>* reasonably well designed
>* somewhat "object based"
>* vast resources, especially sample code and co-workers
>* FUN! It's cool with immediate feedback to see a webpage "come to life" in a
>browser window as you made changes.
>
>BTW, this thread has the potential for straying from something that is helpful to the original poster. Should this sub-thread be renamed to something like: "Preferred 1st language to facilite learning D"
>
></alert>
>
>
>

I'd rather recommend Java than Javascript, as it introduces you to types and object oriented programming in a way it's easy to learn, with just requiring will to learn, as there are no stupid complications and the language will warn you when something fishy, like a uninitialized variable, is found.

However, IMHO Java is excessively restrictive...I find lacking it of unsigned operands, assembler launching and the infamous yet useful goto. Damnit, its 'evilness' is overrated. That funny unconditional jump could reduce a few lines of code without affecting readability. In the right hands it's good to have.

In article <ch58qp$2ieg$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Id says...
>
>
>>The last several times I've been asked about "What is a decent very first programming language?", I've found myself recommending Javascript. IMHO, it has these advantages:
>>
>>* less to learn to get "Hello, World" to show up
>>* fewer tools to learn and setup
>>* often immediately useful for work or school
>>* often advantageous for career advancement
>>* syntactically/semantically somewhat like C and D
>>* reasonably well designed
>>* somewhat "object based"
>>* vast resources, especially sample code and co-workers
>>* FUN! It's cool with immediate feedback to see a webpage "come to life" in a
>>browser window as you made changes.
>>
>>BTW, this thread has the potential for straying from something that is helpful to the original poster. Should this sub-thread be renamed to something like: "Preferred 1st language to facilite learning D"
>>
>></alert>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I'd rather recommend Java than Javascript, as it introduces you to types and object oriented programming in a way it's easy to learn, with just requiring will to learn, as there are no stupid complications and the language will warn you when something fishy, like a uninitialized variable, is found.
>
>However, IMHO Java is excessively restrictive...I find lacking it of unsigned operands, assembler launching and the infamous yet useful goto. Damnit, its 'evilness' is overrated. That funny unconditional jump could reduce a few lines of code without affecting readability. In the right hands it's good to have.
>
>

Actually I think JavaScript wouldn't be that much of a good idea, it is better than most languages though. It allows 'a lot' of magic, it makes it easy to some point, but the fact you can do something 'hackish' and verbose so easily also makes the learning curve stop at a point where it shouldn't. JavaScript does show a nice light form of object orientation though (without the inheritances).

I don't really like Java, though it shows what programmers should worry about instead of what they shouldn't worry about the first few classes they take (memory managment, etc).

Personally, I think Python and Pascal are good candidates, first Python to show 'how' to put an abstract problem/algorithm down in concrete text (and teach object orientation, without bothering about types and memory), and second Pascal to show how things really work on an imperative 'real' computer scale.

See the following for tutorials:

http://www.dprogramming.com/tutorial.php
by Vathix xx kernel.net

http://www.dsource.org/tutorials/
by Justin Calvarese (jcc7)

"Clessy" <Clessy_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:ch4gi7$27lb$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Is there any genertic guide on actually learning D if you dont know any
> other
> programing language. Like D for dummies or something? It sounds like its a
> easier choice than C++ and it also seems like it would have much more
> portable
> libaries than C++ and its Windows based compilers.
>
> 

Goodday fellows!
Mr.Deja's Advice seems to be the best one so far.It seems that comprehensive D
tutorials (preferrably on Digitalmars) will appear in 2006 or later.
Most Novice Programmer of the D forum.

In article <ch4osa$2b7u$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Lynn A says...
>
>From The WB:
>>http://www.digitalmars.com/d/overview.html
>>
>>Who D is Not For
>>
>>     * As a first programming language - Basic or Java is more suitable
>>for beginners. D makes an excellent second language for intermediate to advanced programmers.
>
><alert comment="D newbie who is NOT advocating Javascript and is VERY IMPRESSED with D>
>
>The last several times I've been asked about "What is a decent very first programming language?", I've found myself recommending Javascript. IMHO, it has these advantages:
>
>* less to learn to get "Hello, World" to show up
>* fewer tools to learn and setup
>* often immediately useful for work or school
>* often advantageous for career advancement
>* syntactically/semantically somewhat like C and D
>* reasonably well designed
>* somewhat "object based"
>* vast resources, especially sample code and co-workers
>* FUN! It's cool with immediate feedback to see a webpage "come to life" in a
>browser window as you made changes.
>
>BTW, this thread has the potential for straying from something that is helpful to the original poster. Should this sub-thread be renamed to something like: "Preferred 1st language to facilite learning D"
>
></alert>
>

(This is assuming you are talking about people who want to make a professional future out of programming).

Current (and I stress current) popularity aside, I think D would be a great first language because you can start out with procedural programming for simple string and mathematical operations and move up from there. Unlike C but like Java, JavaScript and the rest you can do string manip. w/o having to use things like malloc(), strcat(), etc. Plus you can then move on to 'more complicated' things with the same basic syntax and tools.

The overview web page I think was written that way because D is intended for more complicated, high-performance programming tasks which are not for beginners in any case. But, really, I think alot of things can be done as simply in D as in BASIC.

Java kinda 'forces' you into OOP so that may make the learning curve higher to start with. I think for most beginners, programming is intimidating enough w/o having to also remember some OOP rules/syntax just to write programs like "hello world". Plus there is a little more to remember and learn right away in order to actually build and run your code.

JavaScript is indeed very attractive because people can write things that execute in browsers and it is forgiving. But it can also often require two sets of syntax to do the same things from the command line (for example, with WSH) as well.

D's tools are also relatively easy to install and use - at least the DM versions are.

D offers a really well-rounded first language from both a learning curve and a comp. sci. POV, I think, if someone plans on working in this field.

It's easy for people who are accustomed to C/++ to see the similarities in D and therefore dismiss it as a first language. But the thing about D is that beginning concepts (strings, math, simple I/O) can be taught w/o explicit knowledge of things like pointers and memory management, just like Java and BASIC.

I can't think of another language with as smooth (or as broad) of a learning curve, come to think of it.

- Dave