What debuggers, if any, are people actually using with their DMD programs on Windows? You know: setting breakpoints, examining a live stack when an error occurs, etc.

Does the one with DMC work with DMD executables? http://www.digitalmars.com/ugr/chapter23.html


Thanks,
-Chuck

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 06:34:58 +0000 (UTC), Chuck.Esterbrook /at/ gmail /dot/
com wrote:

> What debuggers, if any, are people actually using with their DMD programs on Windows? You know: setting breakpoints, examining a live stack when an error occurs, etc.

Real Programmers Don't Use Debuggers ;-)

I am a bit of a luddite in this regard. I still use the odd writef() to 'trace' my code. As a consequence, I only make tiny code changes before each test run, in order to limit the debugging focus. Oh, that and unit tests.

I suppose if there was a useful interactive GUI debugger that could really understand D internals etc ... I might be tempted into the dark side.

-- 
Derek
(skype: derek.j.parnell)
Melbourne, Australia
16/08/2005 4:47:22 PM

In article <xze9vkdbz6oq$.1uac3snm89ho3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>
>On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 06:34:58 +0000 (UTC), Chuck.Esterbrook /at/ gmail /dot/
>com wrote:
>
>> What debuggers, if any, are people actually using with their DMD programs on Windows? You know: setting breakpoints, examining a live stack when an error occurs, etc.
>
>Real Programmers Don't Use Debuggers ;-)
>
>I am a bit of a luddite in this regard. I still use the odd writef() to 'trace' my code. As a consequence, I only make tiny code changes before each test run, in order to limit the debugging focus. Oh, that and unit tests.
>
>I suppose if there was a useful interactive GUI debugger that could really understand D internals etc ... I might be tempted into the dark side.

I think limiting myself to only some QA and troubleshooting techniques would be a poor choice. I'm a proud user of pre-post-conditions, class invariants, asserts, unit tests, print statements, exception handling, static source code analysis and debuggers.

I know from experience that if I removed any one of those "from the equation" my productivity would be reduced. They all have pros and cons and I enjoy applying each of them when they are called for.

I've received substantial benefits from:
- Python's dumping of the entire stack trace for uncaught exceptions. This
really helps diagnosis.
- Python's ability to include additional run time information with assertions (a
topic recently brought up in this newsgroup).
- WingIDE for interacting with a live Python program.
- Visual Studio 2003 for interacting with a live C# program.

Before my D codebase becomes substantial, I hope to acquire similar capabilities for D. Hopefully, someone already has to some degree and can share their actual experiences.

-Chuck

Derek Parnell wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 06:34:58 +0000 (UTC), Chuck.Esterbrook /at/ gmail /dot/
> com wrote:
> 
> 
>>What debuggers, if any, are people actually using with their DMD programs on
>>Windows? You know: setting breakpoints, examining a live stack when an error
>>occurs, etc.
> 
> 
> Real Programmers Don't Use Debuggers ;-)
> 
> I am a bit of a luddite in this regard. I still use the odd writef() to
> 'trace' my code. As a consequence, I only make tiny code changes before
> each test run, in order to limit the debugging focus. Oh, that and unit
> tests.
> 
> I suppose if there was a useful interactive GUI debugger that could really
> understand D internals etc ... I might be tempted into the dark side. 
> 

Actually, I believe a debugger might be exceptionally useful for D program troubleshooting at this point of the game.

D is still beta... A debugger may provide a useful perspective in determining d programming aberrations due to language issues.

It can be hard to hunt such problems down otherwise.  Of course, I guess we have managed up to this point without one (excepting the marginal uses of windbg and the gnu debugger).

-JJR

Chuck.Esterbrook /at/ gmail /dot/ com wrote:
> What debuggers, if any, are people actually using with their DMD programs on
> Windows? You know: setting breakpoints, examining a live stack when an error
> occurs, etc.
> 
> Does the one with DMC work with DMD executables?
> http://www.digitalmars.com/ugr/chapter23.html
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> -Chuck
> 
> 

Someone mentioned (probably along time ago) debugging with MSVC 6

http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport#MicrosoftVisualC60

I don't know if that still applies.

> I've received substantial benefits from:
> - Python's dumping of the entire stack trace for uncaught exceptions. This
> really helps diagnosis.

Someone started working on this but I don't know the current status: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/22562.html http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/22967.html

Hi,

>I think limiting myself to only some QA and troubleshooting techniques would be a poor choice. I'm a proud user of pre-post-conditions, class invariants, asserts, unit tests, print statements, exception handling, static source code analysis and debuggers.
>
>I know from experience that if I removed any one of those "from the equation" my productivity would be reduced. They all have pros and cons and I enjoy applying each of them when they are called for.
>
>I've received substantial benefits from:
>- Python's dumping of the entire stack trace for uncaught exceptions. This
>really helps diagnosis.
>- Python's ability to include additional run time information with assertions (a
>topic recently brought up in this newsgroup).
>- WingIDE for interacting with a live Python program.
>- Visual Studio 2003 for interacting with a live C# program.

I completely agree with everything you've said here. When coding in C# I have the enourmous benefit of the VS2K5 environment with its phenomenal debugger. I mean that thing is almost a sentient creature by now.

It is really painful to go back and forth between this and printf() when coding in D. OTOH, a rich environment like that _coupled_ with D would probably kick butt.

>Before my D codebase becomes substantial, I hope to acquire similar capabilities for D. Hopefully, someone already has to some degree and can share their actual experiences.

Personally, all my debugging efforts have failed miserably. I can't even get GDB (various versions) to run my D programs _at all_ under linux. Sigh... this is an area that could really use improvement.

Here's to something better coming along.
--AJG.

In article <ddsm6e$21n$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle says...
>
>> I've received substantial benefits from:
>> - Python's dumping of the entire stack trace for uncaught exceptions. This
>> really helps diagnosis.
>
>Someone started working on this but I don't know the current status: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/22562.html http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/22967.html
>
>

Did he ever post anything (a zip, URL, anything) to the DNG for his work?  Maybe someone should hunt down his email?

- EricAnderton at yahoo

I have been working on a Debugger for months , but have been strapped for time lately ( like all of us. ).  It uses dbghelp & imghelp to extract symbols.  What its missing is the ability to get 'type' info from variables so it can 'see' their contents , however Walter  said he'd totally add this into the debug info , soon as their codes are figured out.

What I have now is really rough , its a mess in fact . I will clean it up today and put it on the web, but I want to post while everyone is still interested.

Maybe if we all combine what little time we have we can finish it and get a debugger !


Charlie


"pragma" <pragma_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:ddsrcu$7f9$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <ddsm6e$21n$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle says...
> >
> >> I've received substantial benefits from:
> >> - Python's dumping of the entire stack trace for uncaught exceptions.
This
> >> really helps diagnosis.
> >
> >Someone started working on this but I don't know the current status: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/22562.html http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/22967.html
> >
> >
>
> Did he ever post anything (a zip, URL, anything) to the DNG for his work?
Maybe
> someone should hunt down his email?
>
> - EricAnderton at yahoo

Chuck.Esterbrook /at/ gmail /dot/ com wrote:
> What debuggers, if any, are people actually using with their DMD programs on
> Windows? You know: setting breakpoints, examining a live stack when an error
> occurs, etc.
> 
> Does the one with DMC work with DMD executables?
> http://www.digitalmars.com/ugr/chapter23.html
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> -Chuck
> 
> 

I used MSVC6 and OpenWatcom Windows debugger before I wrote up a logging module plus a testing framework which enabled me to locate bugs quickly without the need of a full-fledged debugger.