For what it's worth, here is one guy's opinion and need.

I am considering D, becuase I am looking for a low level language complementing Python. I use Python becuase it is the most productive language I have ever seen. Incidentally, Python cites many of the same reasons for its creation as D does. I think that is a good sign.

D is clearly going into the direction that I am looking for.  But it is still a long way from what it would need to be to bet a major project on.  That may be OK, Python lingered for 15 years or so before reaching the threshold of acceptability.  C needed more than a decade as well.

I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that maybe one day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the "up" direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a lot more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python".   I do not design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.  The next best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded.  But there is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it could become one sometime.

Waldemar

Nice language, still.

<waldemar@nxp.com> wrote in message news:dkjoa6$2m30$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that
maybe one
> day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the
"up"
> direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a
lot
> more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python".   I
do not
> design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.
The next
> best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded.  But
there
> is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it
could
> become one sometime.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. C++ compatibility?

> Ideally, it would be "low level Python".

Have a look at Boo.
http://boo.codehaus.org/

L.

Walter Bright wrote:
> <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote in message news:dkjoa6$2m30$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that
> 
> maybe one
> 
>>day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the
> 
> "up"
> 
>>direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a
> 
> lot
> 
>>more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python".   I
> 
> do not
> 
>>design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.
> 
> The next
> 
>>best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded.  But
> 
> there
> 
>>is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it
> 
> could
> 
>>become one sometime.
> 
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. C++ compatibility?
> 
> 

I think he wants a low level language that has builtin support for calling python code, or can be easily embedded into python.

Right, I do not need C++ compatibility.

Python is deceptively attractive until one runs into performance problems which invariably leads to a painful drift toward C/C++.  BTW, I have looked at Boo. Looks great on paper but how fast is it?

D is still in play in my project becaue it is fast.  If I gravitate away from Python toward D, that's a better alternative for me than C.  Even if it works one way only.  Unfortunately, there is no direct path to D, it can only be done (maybe) with a C wrapper around D.  What a hassle.  I do not know very many program managers putting up with it.

So there is my case.

PS.: Three things D might want to borrow from Python: indents, tuples, and the % formatting operator. The first one eliminates the need to type those unnecessary braces, kills the never ending fights over the "coding standards", and removes the necessity to match the parentheses all the time. The second one is an extremely handy vehicle for handling small sets of data as well as for dealing with mutliple input/output parameters.  The third one properly decouples formatting from i/o which should have been done long long time ago.

In article <436F87A5.4030802@gmail.com>, clayasaurus says...
>
>Walter Bright wrote:
>> <waldemar@nxp.com> wrote in message news:dkjoa6$2m30$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> 
>>>I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that
>> 
>> maybe one
>> 
>>>day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the
>> 
>> "up"
>> 
>>>direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a
>> 
>> lot
>> 
>>>more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python".   I
>> 
>> do not
>> 
>>>design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.
>> 
>> The next
>> 
>>>best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded.  But
>> 
>> there
>> 
>>>is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it
>> 
>> could
>> 
>>>become one sometime.
>> 
>> 
>> I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. C++ compatibility?
>> 
>> 
>
>I think he wants a low level language that has builtin support for calling python code, or can be easily embedded into python.
>

I think I would rather gouge outmy eyeballs with a rusty spoon than use a language that actually enforced indentations as grammar. python is cute but ive even had to debug 'misindented' code - it was one of the dumbest things ive ever seen....


waldemar@nxp.com wrote:
> Right, I do not need C++ compatibility.
> 
> PS.: Three things D might want to borrow from Python: indents, tuples, and the %
> formatting operator. The first one eliminates the need to type those unnecessary
> braces, kills the never ending fights over the "coding standards", and removes
> the necessity to match the parentheses all the time. The second one is an
> extremely handy vehicle for handling small sets of data as well as for dealing
> with mutliple input/output parameters.  The third one properly decouples
> formatting from i/o which should have been done long long time ago.
> 
> In article <436F87A5.4030802@gmail.com>, clayasaurus says...
> 
>>Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>><waldemar@nxp.com> wrote in message news:dkjoa6$2m30$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that
>>>
>>>maybe one
>>>
>>>
>>>>day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the
>>>
>>>"up"
>>>
>>>
>>>>direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a
>>>
>>>lot
>>>
>>>
>>>>more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python".   I
>>>
>>>do not
>>>
>>>
>>>>design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.
>>>
>>>The next
>>>
>>>
>>>>best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded.  But
>>>
>>>there
>>>
>>>
>>>>is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it
>>>
>>>could
>>>
>>>
>>>>become one sometime.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. C++ compatibility?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I think he wants a low level language that has builtin support for calling python code, or can be easily embedded into python.
>>
> 
> 
> 

waldemar@nxp.com wrote:
> Right, I do not need C++ compatibility.
> 
> Python is deceptively attractive until one runs into performance problems which
> invariably leads to a painful drift toward C/C++.  BTW, I have looked at Boo.
> Looks great on paper but how fast is it?
> 
> D is still in play in my project becaue it is fast.  If I gravitate away from
> Python toward D, that's a better alternative for me than C.  Even if it works
> one way only.  Unfortunately, there is no direct path to D, it can only be done
> (maybe) with a C wrapper around D.  What a hassle.  I do not know very many
> program managers putting up with it.
> 
> So there is my case.
> 
> PS.: Three things D might want to borrow from Python: indents, tuples, and the %
> formatting operator. The first one eliminates the need to type those unnecessary
> braces, kills the never ending fights over the "coding standards", and removes
> the necessity to match the parentheses all the time. The second one is an
> extremely handy vehicle for handling small sets of data as well as for dealing
> with mutliple input/output parameters.  The third one properly decouples
> formatting from i/o which should have been done long long time ago.
> 
> In article <436F87A5.4030802@gmail.com>, clayasaurus says...
> 
>>Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>><waldemar@nxp.com> wrote in message news:dkjoa6$2m30$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that
>>>
>>>maybe one
>>>
>>>
>>>>day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the
>>>
>>>"up"
>>>
>>>
>>>>direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a
>>>
>>>lot
>>>
>>>
>>>>more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python".   I
>>>
>>>do not
>>>
>>>
>>>>design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.
>>>
>>>The next
>>>
>>>
>>>>best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded.  But
>>>
>>>there
>>>
>>>
>>>>is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it
>>>
>>>could
>>>
>>>
>>>>become one sometime.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. C++ compatibility?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I think he wants a low level language that has builtin support for calling python code, or can be easily embedded into python.
>>
> 
> 
> 


Sorry, just had to drop my two cents here:
Python is as good as pascal!! i.e. it sucks for anything larger than 50 lines of code.
Maintainance with it is just hell!!

>Sorry, just had to drop my two cents here:
>Python is as good as pascal!! i.e. it sucks for anything larger than 50
>lines of code.
>Maintainance with it is just hell!!

I can't confirm that.

"Agent Orange" <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:dl4fsj$2h1p$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>I think I would rather gouge outmy eyeballs with a rusty spoon than use a language that actually enforced indentations as grammar. python is cute but ive even had to debug 'misindented' code - it was one of the dumbest things ive ever seen....
>
Yeah really- try working with indentation as a blind guy like myself; the primary reason I've never used it :).
>
> waldemar@nxp.com wrote:
>> Right, I do not need C++ compatibility.
>>
>> PS.: Three things D might want to borrow from Python: indents, tuples,
>> and the %
>> formatting operator. The first one eliminates the need to type those
>> unnecessary
>> braces, kills the never ending fights over the "coding standards", and
>> removes
>> the necessity to match the parentheses all the time. The second one is an
>> extremely handy vehicle for handling small sets of data as well as for
>> dealing
>> with mutliple input/output parameters.  The third one properly decouples
>> formatting from i/o which should have been done long long time ago.
>>
>> In article <436F87A5.4030802@gmail.com>, clayasaurus says...
>>
>>>Walter Bright wrote:
>>>
>>>><waldemar@nxp.com> wrote in message news:dkjoa6$2m30$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate D's compatibility with C, but my number one wish is that
>>>>
>>>>maybe one
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>day somebody well versed in compiler design can offer compatibility in the
>>>>
>>>>"up"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>direction as well. Swig and company is a one way street I need something a
>>>>
>>>>lot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>more integrated than that.   Ideally, it would be "low level Python". I
>>>>
>>>>do not
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>design compilers but I have a clue and I am aware of the difficulties.
>>>>
>>>>The next
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>best thing would be a low level language that can be easily embedded. But
>>>>
>>>>there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>is nothing remotely adequate for that purpose.  Not even D.  But maybe it
>>>>
>>>>could
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>become one sometime.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. C++ compatibility?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I think he wants a low level language that has builtin support for calling python code, or can be easily embedded into python.
>>>
>>
>> 

Agent Orange wrote:
> I think I would rather gouge outmy eyeballs with a rusty spoon than use a language that actually enforced indentations as grammar. python is cute but ive even had to debug 'misindented' code - it was one of the dumbest things ive ever seen....
> 

You couldn't have said it better.