Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
> I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment complete?
> That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago. Thank god their switching to linux :)
> 
> /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
> 
> - Wim
> 

So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)?  I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :)

Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed.  It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:38:51 -0700, Chad J <gamerChad@_spamIsBad_gmail.com> wrote:

> Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
>> I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment complete?
>> That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago. Thank god their switching to linux :)
>>  /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
>>  - Wim
>>
>
> So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)?  I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :)
>
> Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed.  It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.


It's true, Palm just isn't a choice.  While I liked it's responsiveness and simple user interface, I agree with Wim that the programming interface was an embarassment: it was rediculously outdated and horribly handicapped despite new technology.  You couldn't take advantage of the 32-bit ARM without serious duct tape.  Neither could you program outside of 64K (32K?) because you were basically working within the old Motorola emulator limitations.  I don't mind seeing a linux replacement on Palm... but Palm has lost no matter what they do now. It's a joke.  I doubt they can recover from their fall seeing that there are already several linux PDA alternatives out there now.  Furhermore the PDA craze seems to already be fading.

I don't like the WinCE programming interface either, which amounts to win32 programming, but I certainly wouldn't mind programming on it if D were available there.

-JJR

John Reimer wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:38:51 -0700, Chad J  <gamerChad@_spamIsBad_gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
>>
>>> I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as  well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is  very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break  just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for  its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you  use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked  nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell  x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse  than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP  teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like  its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment  complete?
>>> That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its  something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago.  Thank god their switching to linux :)
>>>  /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
>>>  - Wim
>>>
>>
>> So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of  getting one)?  I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D  programs on it :)
>>
>> Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a  Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not  going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed.  It  seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with  palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.
> 
> 
> 
> It's true, Palm just isn't a choice.  While I liked it's responsiveness  and simple user interface, I agree with Wim that the programming interface  was an embarassment: it was rediculously outdated and horribly handicapped  despite new technology.  You couldn't take advantage of the 32-bit ARM  without serious duct tape.  Neither could you program outside of 64K  (32K?) because you were basically working within the old Motorola emulator  limitations.  I don't mind seeing a linux replacement on Palm... but Palm  has lost no matter what they do now. It's a joke.  I doubt they can  recover from their fall seeing that there are already several linux PDA  alternatives out there now.  Furhermore the PDA craze seems to already be  fading.
> 
> I don't like the WinCE programming interface either, which amounts to  win32 programming, but I certainly wouldn't mind programming on it if D  were available there.
> 
> -JJR

It is good for us that WinCE is similar to Win32, makes phobos much easier to port.  But Palm is similar to nothing.  I think there's a way around the 64kB limit using the FtrPtrNew function.  That still leaves emulating a file system, unless the Palm VFS can be used on the PDA's own RAM.  Also anything that isn't covered by the few POSIX functions that Palm seems to have exposed (<a href="http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/docs/dev_suite/CompilerRef/CompilerRef_RuntimeFunctions.html">link</a>) will need to be handled with fresh phobos code.  oh joy.

I haven't heard of that ARM limitation.  That sounds scary too.  What does it use by default instead of 32 bit ARM code?

Yes but their violating GPL when I last heard anything about it, so I'm not sure whether there will be continued support and kernel updates. The GP2X is nice though, as a game development platform, but not as versatile as the Zauri.

- Wim

John Reimer schreef:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:06:17 -0700, Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> We're developing our own port at the moment, and then join Hack'n'Dev and Familiar for packages. Currently Linux boots, but the touch screen and the keyboard don't work yet. We will get GPE running in all its glory by the next school year though.
> 
> 
> Ahh, I was wondering because I'd never heard of a linux port for the Tungsten|C before.
> 
> 
>>
>> About the Zaurus: You have _TWO_? I think I speak for several Linux guru-wannabes here when I say I spend months looking for one, but never got a decent deal on it, and still regret the day I didn't buy one.
>>
> 
> 
> Yes, two :).  One from an easy ebay deal (the C700) and the other from overseas (C3200).  No decent deal was available on the C3200, of course.  I just grit my teeth and shelled out the money.  I just wanted one that bad :P.
> 
> The C700 series wasn't that hard to find on ebay for a good deal, though.  It's battery life is the most dismal of the 7** and 8** clamshell series, but it's certainly an excellent and inexpensive unit for experimenting on before I touch the likes of the shiny C3200. And I love having a rotatable 640x480 screen. :)
> 
> Another unit that greatly interests me is the GP2X.  That linux-based unit, although it's more media and game console oriented, looks fascinating.  And it's not all that expensive either.
> 
> -JJR

Indeed, that's why I have always been hesitant to develop anything on my palm. Windows Mobile is a sweet platform to develop for on the other hand, with great support from MS. And that's coming from a linux fan.

- Wim

Chad J schreef:
> Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
>> I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment complete?
>> That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago. Thank god their switching to linux :)
>>
>> /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
>>
>> - Wim
>>
> 
> So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)?  I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :)
> 
> Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed.  It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.

> I haven't heard of that ARM limitation.  That sounds scary too.  What does it use by default instead of 32 bit ARM code?

Compatibility I suppose. Or laziness from their side?

Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
> I'm currently studying for an exam, so I don't have much time unfortunately. My first priority is to get Linux running however, as we've been working on that for months and I want some working version before we start thinking about the things to do with such a device.
> 
> I'm free from Tuesday next week till mid-September, so I should have some time to get things done then. My email is the one I use to post here (I'm that crazy to use a real email ;) )
> 

You have GMail, so you can use gmail aliases by adding a plus sign to your username, like "john.foo+spam@gmail.com". (http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12096&query=aliases&topic=&type=f&ctx=search)
If that's not enough, then a username without dots is also an alias: "johnfoo@gmail.com"

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - MSc in CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D