Lutger wrote:
> Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
> 
>> watching wrote:
>>> what a pityful sate d is in. this probably shows, that you can't use d
>>> for anything serious and by the time you guys are through discussing
>>> things, people will be using something different for good. too bad
>>>
>> I really don't think so, the very purpose of this IDE I'm developing is
>> to make D easier to use and develop large scale projects with.
>>
>> The only thing still in the way of using D with graphical applications
>> right now is the lack of proper bindings to cross-platform GUI toolkits
>> for D2.
> 
> Out of curiosity, did you consider GtkD and QtD?
> 
> Have you thought about how to do plugins / extensions already? Of all the best software I'm using it seems a large part comes from the extensions. 
> 
> I wish you all the best with this project, great to see something started again on this front. 

I did consider a gtk/gdk approach but not Qt since I never used that API. However, wxWidgets abstracts both the entire native widgets and drawing tookits and extends them quite a lot, especially with wxAUI, that therefore seemed like the best road.

I have a basic draft for plugins already. I made a base Component class template to define abstract factories for the different component types such as Language, Compiler, Linker, Librarian and Plugin which each define a specific interface.

It's a really simple API but it works great, components will be able to register observers at different points in the IDE to implement their functionalities.

Jeremie

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 05:13:39PM -0500, Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
> I wasn't aware of it, this is great news!

Aye :)

I have to say, having an IDE available as a dws app would be several kinds of awesome. Imagine running it on a central server and letting random people connect* and use it for instant demo... that has some fun potential.

* The dws is network transparent. If you're familiar with X on Linux, think
  that, but better.

But I still have a lot of work to do before it is ready to do something like an IDE. Maybe in a couple months we can look at each other's code and see how feasible a port is then.


> 
> Jeremie

-- 
Adam D. Ruppe
http://arsdnet.net

watching wrote:
> what a pityful sate d is in. this probably shows, that you can't use d for anything serious and by the time you guys are through discussing things, people will be using something different for good.
> too bad

+1

Totally agreed

Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 05:13:39PM -0500, Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
>> I wasn't aware of it, this is great news!
> 
> Aye :)
> 
> I have to say, having an IDE available as a dws app would be several kinds
> of awesome. Imagine running it on a central server and letting random people
> connect* and use it for instant demo... that has some fun potential.
> 
> * The dws is network transparent. If you're familiar with X on Linux, think
>   that, but better.
> 
> But I still have a lot of work to do before it is ready to do something like
> an IDE. Maybe in a couple months we can look at each other's code and see
> how feasible a port is then.
> 
> 
>> Jeremie
> 

That would be really awesome, I'm familiar with X but always used it through GTK or GDK on the local display. I can only imagine everything that would be possible with your system and it looks very promising.

Send me a mail once you get your widgets working :)

Jeremie

Why don't you post on d.D.ide?

hasenj wrote:
> watching wrote:
>> what a pityful sate d is in. this probably shows, that you can't use d for anything serious and by the time you guys are through discussing things, people will be using something different for good.
>> too bad
> 
> +1
> 
> Totally agreed


I really like that Adam and Jeremie are doing something about shortcomings they perceive. That's what this is all about.

Jeremie Pelletier Wrote:

> Lutger wrote:
> > Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
> > 
> >> watching wrote:
> >>> what a pityful sate d is in. this probably shows, that you can't use d for anything serious and by the time you guys are through discussing things, people will be using something different for good. too bad
> >>>
> >> I really don't think so, the very purpose of this IDE I'm developing is to make D easier to use and develop large scale projects with.
> >>
> >> The only thing still in the way of using D with graphical applications right now is the lack of proper bindings to cross-platform GUI toolkits for D2.
> > 
> > Out of curiosity, did you consider GtkD and QtD?
> > 
> > Have you thought about how to do plugins / extensions already? Of all the best software I'm using it seems a large part comes from the extensions.
> > 
> > I wish you all the best with this project, great to see something started again on this front.
> 
> I did consider a gtk/gdk approach but not Qt since I never used that API. However, wxWidgets abstracts both the entire native widgets and drawing tookits and extends them quite a lot, especially with wxAUI, that therefore seemed like the best road.
> 
> I have a basic draft for plugins already. I made a base Component class template to define abstract factories for the different component types such as Language, Compiler, Linker, Librarian and Plugin which each define a specific interface.
> 
> It's a really simple API but it works great, components will be able to register observers at different points in the IDE to implement their functionalities.
> 
> Jeremie

Well, QtD works well for D2, and I must say that Qt is a very easy API to learn.

most programmer want use the language and a lot libraries that come with it. instead of gui, db etc. you guys discuss until all prospective users are gone off to use something that lets them do the job

maybe it is time to put a large effort into libraries by all the bright people that are arroung d.


Walter Bright Wrote:

> hasenj wrote:
> > watching wrote:
> >> what a pityful sate d is in. this probably shows, that you can't use d
> >> for anything serious and by the time you guys are through discussing
> >> things, people will be using something different for good.
> >> too bad
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > Totally agreed
> 
> 
> I really like that Adam and Jeremie are doing something about shortcomings they perceive. That's what this is all about.

watching wrote:
> most programmer want use the language and a lot libraries that come with it. instead of gui, db etc. you guys discuss until all prospective users are gone off to use something that lets them do the job
> 
> maybe it is time to put a large effort into libraries by all the bright people that are arroung d. 

The IDE I'm developing is exactly for that purpose, to bring more people to D and to make writing D code more convenient.

The D language doesn't need to come with tons of libraries out of the box, its a systems language after all; C++ only comes with the STL and C with the stdlib, you need platform headers and third party libraries to do something more than a simple console program.

The D2 spec is still in development and so are most libraries for it, a book is getting near publication. I figured I'd contribute my part with an IDE, C++ sounded like a convenient choice at the moment.

D is already much more convenient to use as a language than any other language I touched before and its only a matter of time before its libraries base grows.

In any ways, I believe its a good thing to use multiple languages to better understand the differences between them, the end result doesn't change. I could've used java, C#, python or even mozilla's XUL with javascript and the IDE would've been the same.

Jeremie

> Walter Bright Wrote:
> 
>> hasenj wrote:
>>> watching wrote:
>>>> what a pityful sate d is in. this probably shows, that you can't use d for anything serious and by the time you guys are through discussing things, people will be using something different for good.
>>>> too bad
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Totally agreed
>>
>> I really like that Adam and Jeremie are doing something about shortcomings they perceive. That's what this is all about.
> 

Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
> watching wrote:
>> most programmer want use the language and a lot libraries that come with it. instead of gui, db etc. you guys discuss until all prospective users are gone off to use something that lets them do the job
>>
>> maybe it is time to put a large effort into libraries by all the bright people that are arroung d. 
> 
> The IDE I'm developing is exactly for that purpose, to bring more people to D and to make writing D code more convenient.

Exactly, and I'm most pleased to see you and others stepping up to fill in the gaps.


> The D language doesn't need to come with tons of libraries out of the box, its a systems language after all; C++ only comes with the STL and C with the stdlib, you need platform headers and third party libraries to do something more than a simple console program.

While that's true that C and C++ became successful with minimal libraries, I think the bar is much higher these days. Looking at the go library, there's a lot in there we could use in the D library.

http://golang.org/pkg/

The library is licensed under the http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
meaning we can adapt it to D.


> In any ways, I believe its a good thing to use multiple languages to better understand the differences between them, the end result doesn't change. I could've used java, C#, python or even mozilla's XUL with javascript and the IDE would've been the same.

I disagree, as then the IDE would be dependent on those large ecosystems. One nice thing about native apps is they stand alone.

One thing I do suggest is writing it in a "D-ish" style so that it will be easier to translate to D at some point.