dmd codegen improvements (page 15)

On Sunday, 23 August 2015 at 08:01:27 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > On 8/22/2015 5:03 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: >> On Tuesday, 18 August 2015 at 17:10:36 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: >>> On Tuesday, 18 August 2015 at 12:37:37 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: >>>> I suggest that we revamp the compiler download page again. The lead should be >>>> a "select your compiler" which lists the advantages and disadvantages of each >>>> of DMD, LDC and GDC. >>> >>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/1067 >> >> Now live on http://dlang.org/download.html >> >> Better artwork welcome :) > > Aren't i386 and x32 the same platforms? No, x32 is basically amd64 with 32 bits pointers. You can use all other functions of amd64, like the extended number of registers.

August 24, 2015

Re: dmd codegen improvements

Posted by ixid
in reply to Walter Bright

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ixid

Posted in reply to Walter Bright

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On Tuesday, 18 August 2015 at 10:45:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> Martin ran some benchmarks recently that showed that ddmd compiled with dmd was about 30% slower than when compiled with gdc/ldc. This seems to be fairly typical.
>
> I'm interested in ways to reduce that gap.

One of D's potential massive wins is speed and I think that has the most easily conveyed impacted on the audience. If we had the best benchmark site for a very large range of languages it would not only draw people here but drive the improvement of D on all compilers (and perhaps allow us to make LDC/GCD for run speed, DMD for compile speed more explicit) as every time there is a benchmark contest we seem to find some small thing that needs a fix and then D blows others away. This would also convey more idiomatic D for performance as D seems to suffer from people writing it as whatever language they come from. People love competitions, the current benchmark site that seems to weirdly dislike D is one of people's go to references. I do not have the ability to do this but it would seem like an excellent project for someone outside the major development group, a Summer of Code-esque thing.

On Monday, 24 August 2015 at 08:59:57 UTC, ixid wrote: > > One of D's potential massive wins is speed and I think that has the most easily conveyed impacted on the audience. If we had the best benchmark site for a very large range of languages it would not only draw people here but drive the improvement of D on all compilers (and perhaps allow us to make LDC/GCD for run speed, DMD for compile speed more explicit) as every time there is a benchmark contest we seem to find some small thing that needs a fix and then D blows others away. This would also convey more idiomatic D for performance as D seems to suffer from people writing it as whatever language they come from. People love competitions, the current benchmark site that seems to weirdly dislike D is one of people's go to references. I do not have the ability to do this but it would seem like an excellent project for someone outside the major development group, a Summer of Code-esque thing. You mean this site? http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/

On Monday, 24 August 2015 at 08:59:57 UTC, ixid wrote: -snip- > People love competitions, the current benchmark site that seems to weirdly dislike D is one of people's go to references. I do not have the ability to do this but it would seem like an excellent project for someone outside the major development group, a Summer of Code-esque thing. Lest we forget, this time last year -- http://forum.dlang.org/post/lv9s7n$1trl$1@digitalmars.com

On Monday, 24 August 2015 at 15:03:48 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote: > On Monday, 24 August 2015 at 08:59:57 UTC, ixid wrote: > -snip- >> People love competitions, the current benchmark site that seems to weirdly dislike D is one of people's go to references. I do not have the ability to do this but it would seem like an excellent project for someone outside the major development group, a Summer of Code-esque thing. > > > Lest we forget, this time last year -- > > http://forum.dlang.org/post/lv9s7n$1trl$1@digitalmars.com Yes, it requires someone to pick up the baton for what is clearly a very significant task. Your site is excellent and it's very unfortunate that D is absent.

On Monday, 24 August 2015 at 15:36:42 UTC, ixid wrote: -snip- > Yes, it requires someone to pick up the baton for what is clearly a very significant task. Your site is excellent and it's very unfortunate that D is absent. iirc I asked Peter Alexander about progress last December and he had successfully used the provided scripts without any difficulty. Someone has published a Python comparison website (even re-using the PHP scripts as-is!) without needing to ask me any questions at all -- http://pybenchmarks.org/ It just needs "someone to pick up the baton" and do it, instead of talking about doing it.

On 19/08/2015 09:22, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: >> >>>>> I'm interested in ways to reduce that gap. >> [...] >> >> Replace the backend with GDC or LLVM? :-P >> > > Oh come on - LLVM was an inferiour backend for some time. > So what? Let us no work on it 'cause GCC is faster? I can't figure out what you meant: LLVM has an inferiour backend to what? GCC or DMD? -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros

On 18/08/2015 21:28, Walter Bright wrote: > On 8/18/2015 12:38 PM, deadalnix wrote: >> And honestly, there is no way DMD can catch up. > > I find your lack of faith disturbing. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE&feature=player_detailpage#t=91 My instinct also tells me it's extremely unlikely that DMD will be able to catch. But regardless of that, let's suppose it does catch up, that you (and/or others) are eventually able to make the DMD backend as good as LLVM/GCC. At what cost (development time wise) will that come? How much big chunks of development effort will be spent on that task, that could be spent on improving other areas of D, just so that DMD could be about as good (not better, just *as good*), as LDC/GDC?... -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros

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