Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
> On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.
> 
> Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

(I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it)

DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just
rent.
Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops
the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.

Because of that I'd never buy E-Books or music with DRM - if I buy a book I want to be able to read it again in 20 years - same with music. Plus I want to be able to play music on any device (like my car radio) and not just on my PC or iPod.

So I agree with Nick: Until E-Books are DRM free (and have a standard
format that works on any E-Book reader, but I think this is already
available) they (hopefully!) won't supersede paperbacks.

Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf, just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big cardboard boxes).

Cheers,
- Daniel

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:04:13 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
>> On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.
>>
>> Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and
>> vice versa.
>
> (I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it)
>
> DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just
> rent.
> Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops
> the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.

This actually happened with Yahoo music.  I had about 60 songs in Yahoo music (used to be MusicMatch) that had DRM in them when they decided to close up shop.  Want to know what their solution was?  Burn them to CD and then re-rip them.  Imagine that, a music download site *promoting* removing the DRM from music!  After a certain date, if you hadn't done that, and your computer crashed, you were SOL.

I happened to burn all of them to disk about a week before my motherboard fried, so I was glad I did that :)  The only issue is, now when I rip them, there is no track information.  So I have to listen to each song, then hand-type in the track info.  *THAT* is annoying.

I'm all for DRM-free stuff, it's definitely a better way to go.

-Steve

On 6/21/2011 6:04 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:
> Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf,
> just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they
> are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big
> cardboard boxes).

I do too, until there get to be too many of them! Then they're a burden.

I have too many.

I don't mind DRM on things that I rent, such as Netflix movies. I'd have no problem renting books from Amazon that are DRM'd. I'd pay some modest monthly fee to Amazon if I could 'rent' one book at a time on my Kindle, up to so many per month.

I also wouldn't mind DRM if the cost is low enough, but most DRM books on the Kindle are at price points where I'd want to own them free & clear.

"Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:op.vxfgdv1ceav7ka@localhost.localdomain...
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:04:13 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
>>> On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>> I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.
>>>
>>> Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.
>>
>> (I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it)
>>
>> DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just
>> rent.
>> Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops
>> the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.
>
> This actually happened with Yahoo music.  I had about 60 songs in Yahoo music (used to be MusicMatch) that had DRM in them when they decided to close up shop.  Want to know what their solution was?  Burn them to CD and then re-rip them.  Imagine that, a music download site *promoting* removing the DRM from music!  After a certain date, if you hadn't done that, and your computer crashed, you were SOL.
>

Heh, so the only way Yahoo allowed you to keep the music you legitimately bought is by degrading the quality (I'm assuming they weren't lossless to begin with?). About what I'd expect from those yahoos.

"Jacob Carlborg" <doob@me.com> wrote in message news:itpus1$1odg$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 2011-06-21 11:57, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 6/20/2011 11:37 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>> I have a Kindle, the one with the lager screen,
>>
>> You mean one comes with free beer? Dang, I missed that in the feature chart!
>
> Exactly, they have one version that comes with ale instead :)
>

I bet those would go well with that Windows book by Pretzold.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> On 6/21/2011 6:04 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:
>>
>> Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf, just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big cardboard boxes).
>
> I do too, until there get to be too many of them! Then they're a burden.
>
> I have too many.
>
> I don't mind DRM on things that I rent, such as Netflix movies. I'd have no problem renting books from Amazon that are DRM'd. I'd pay some modest monthly fee to Amazon if I could 'rent' one book at a time on my Kindle, up to so many per month.
>
> I also wouldn't mind DRM if the cost is low enough, but most DRM books on the Kindle are at price points where I'd want to own them free & clear.
>

yall forgetting about digital libraries such as http://my.safaribooksonline.com/
As a university student I get free access and I can read anything
anywhere.  The idea of ownership is obsolete. Strategic access is the
future.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:52 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a@a.a> wrote:

> "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:op.vxfgdv1ceav7ka@localhost.localdomain...
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:04:13 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
>>>> On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>>> I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and
>>>> vice versa.
>>>
>>> (I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it)
>>>
>>> DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just
>>> rent.
>>> Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops
>>> the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.
>>
>> This actually happened with Yahoo music.  I had about 60 songs in Yahoo
>> music (used to be MusicMatch) that had DRM in them when they decided to
>> close up shop.  Want to know what their solution was?  Burn them to CD and
>> then re-rip them.  Imagine that, a music download site *promoting*
>> removing the DRM from music!  After a certain date, if you hadn't done
>> that, and your computer crashed, you were SOL.
>>
>
> Heh, so the only way Yahoo allowed you to keep the music you legitimately
> bought is by degrading the quality (I'm assuming they weren't lossless to
> begin with?). About what I'd expect from those yahoos.

The quality was not bad, it was 360k I believe.  The quality certainly was not an issue (even after burning and re-encoding using iTunes).

What was (and still is, since I haven't finished doing it!) an issue is the process to de-authorize the content.  It would have been nicer to provide a tool to do it instead of making me 1) waste writable CDs, 2) waste time burning CDs and 3) waste time trying to figure out what tags to put on each song.

But in the end, having playable songs is better than just having to throw away the songs, and what am I going to do, complain to some business that's going out of business? :)

Yeah, DRM is sucky, especially for things like books and music.  I can see it being used for some place that you rent/borrow things (library/netflix), but to sell me a copy and not let me do what I want with it is crap.

-Steve

"Caligo" <iteronvexor@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1085.1308685320.14074.digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com...
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:
>> On 6/21/2011 6:04 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:
>>>
>>> Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf, just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big cardboard boxes).
>>
>> I do too, until there get to be too many of them! Then they're a burden.
>>
>> I have too many.
>>
>> I don't mind DRM on things that I rent, such as Netflix movies. I'd have
>> no
>> problem renting books from Amazon that are DRM'd. I'd pay some modest
>> monthly fee to Amazon if I could 'rent' one book at a time on my Kindle,
>> up
>> to so many per month.
>>
>> I also wouldn't mind DRM if the cost is low enough, but most DRM books on the Kindle are at price points where I'd want to own them free & clear.
>>
>
> yall forgetting about digital libraries such as
> http://my.safaribooksonline.com/
> As a university student I get free access and I can read anything
> anywhere.  The idea of ownership is obsolete. Strategic access is the
> future.

s/obsolete/not trendy/
s/Strategic/Restricted/