On 2014-12-14 22:00, Kiith-Sa wrote:

> One thing I ran into often when I was inexperienced with D:
>    the template constraints make some signatures extremely messy, and it
> takes a while to figure out when you have e.g. 3 template functions of
> the same name in
> std.algorithm, all with crypric signatures.
>
> Example:
>
> ptrdiff_t countUntil(alias pred = "a == b", R, Rs...)(R haystack, Rs
> needles) if (isForwardRange!R && Rs.length > 0 && isForwardRange!(Rs[0])
> == isInputRange!(Rs[0]) && is(typeof(startsWith!pred(haystack,
> needles[0]))) && (Rs.length == 1 || is(typeof(countUntil!pred(haystack,
> needles[1..$])))));
> ptrdiff_t countUntil(alias pred = "a == b", R, N)(R haystack, N needle)
> if (isInputRange!R && is(typeof(binaryFun!pred(haystack.front, needle))
> : bool));
>
> countUntil is trivial to use, but the docs make it seem complicated
> and it takes a while to read them.
> (This is not really a good example as with countUntil it's not *that*
>   bad, but I think it should be enough to show the problem)
>
> In this specific case, it would be useful if the constraint was somehow
> separated from the rest of the signature and less emphasized (CSS).

I made a suggestion for simplifying signatures in the documentation here [1]

[1] http://forum.dlang.org/thread/lt1hai$186b$1@digitalmars.com

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:48:36 +0000
Paulo  Pinto via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.
google? fb? twitter? instagram? watsapp? those are companies that processes massive traffic. without windows. i prefer to look at them instead of ACME Corp., which don't even know why it need a "web-site".

they made a mistake once choosing windows for web, but i don't want to help their mistake to grow. sure, they will found somebody for that -- it's possible to found people to do *any* work, but this will not be me. windows is a nightmare. windows server is a fiendish nightmare.

and btw, most windows-oriented software developers sux. "visual studio, intellisense, debugger, bla-bla-bla". take anything of that out and they can't do a smallest bit of work. phew.

On 12/15/2014 12:27 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> I made a suggestion for simplifying signatures in the documentation here [1]
>
> [1] http://forum.dlang.org/thread/lt1hai$186b$1@digitalmars.com


Please file as an enhancement request in bugzilla. Suggestions in the n.g. are likely to be forgotten.

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 08:49:11 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:48:36 +0000
> Paulo  Pinto via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.
> google? fb? twitter? instagram? watsapp?

Companies like those are a very small sample from Fortune 500 companies, specially those whose main business has nothing to do with software.

> those are companies that
> processes massive traffic. without windows. i prefer to look at them
> instead of ACME Corp., which don't even know why it need a "web-site".
>
> they made a mistake once choosing windows for web, but i don't want to
> help their mistake to grow. sure, they will found somebody for that --
> it's possible to found people to do *any* work, but this will not be
> me. windows is a nightmare. windows server is a fiendish nightmare.
>
> and btw, most windows-oriented software developers sux. "visual studio,
> intellisense, debugger, bla-bla-bla". take anything of that out and
> they can't do a smallest bit of work. phew.

I could respond to this, but better leave as it is.

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 08:13:33 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 07:48:37 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
>> Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.
>
> I have heard good enough first 9000 times, thanks.
>
>> If you want to appeal to those users
>
> No.

So how to you plan to make game developers adopt D?

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:42:26 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 08:13:33 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
>> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 07:48:37 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
>>> Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.
>>
>> I have heard good enough first 9000 times, thanks.
>>
>>> If you want to appeal to those users
>>
>> No.
>
> So how to you plan to make game developers adopt D?

I don't plan it and don't realistically ever expect it. Considering the fact that game development industry is traditionally one of the worst in contributing upstream I also don't have any motivation to convince them adopt D.

If there ever appears a game development company / community interested in _investing_ into programming language that would be totally different story but also irrelevant to enterprise culture you refer to.

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:46:30 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:42:26 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
>> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 08:13:33 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
>>> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 07:48:37 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
>>>> Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.
>>>
>>> I have heard good enough first 9000 times, thanks.
>>>
>>>> If you want to appeal to those users
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> So how to you plan to make game developers adopt D?
>
> I don't plan it and don't realistically ever expect it. Considering the fact that game development industry is traditionally one of the worst in contributing upstream I also don't have any motivation to convince them adopt D.
>
> If there ever appears a game development company / community interested in _investing_ into programming language that would be totally different story but also irrelevant to enterprise culture you refer to.

isn't that enterprise culture or communities/companies interested in investing in programming languages made java, c#, python and ruby mainstream?

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 11:25:43 UTC, Mengu wrote:
> isn't that enterprise culture or communities/companies interested in investing in programming languages made java, c#, python and ruby mainstream?

Java / C# - huge amount of enterprise money invested into it from the very start and designed from the very scratch as product to sell. Nothing in common with D.

Python / Ruby - pushed by community hype with some enterprise interest appearing only recently when those have been already established solutions

I am not sure what you were implying though.

> My personal preference is still for C++ done in a similar manner as vibe.d as I think it's the sweet spot between ease of use and scalability provided you have a talented team, but I've seen Java be used successfully for servicing hundreds of millions of users with a high concurrent throughput.

So, boost asio then? Miles away from the ease-of-use of vibe.d.

Atila

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:46:30 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
>
> I don't plan it and don't realistically ever expect it. Considering the fact that game development industry is traditionally one of the worst in contributing upstream I also don't have any motivation to convince them adopt D.
>
> If there ever appears a game development company / community interested in _investing_ into programming language that would be totally different story but also irrelevant to enterprise culture you refer to.

We talk a lot of game developers here, and it's an interesting target but there are many other native programmers stuck with C++ and often unable to use anything else, in the many niches of the world.