On 2013-01-05 03:45:11 +0000, Rob T said:

> I forgot to add that you can always create D bindings directly to the Vortex C library which will allow you to use BEEP with your D applications via Vortex. That's one of the cool things about D, it is fully compatible with the C ABI.

Yes, I know. Nevertheless, I think such an idea can make big use of D's features to create a very reliable library.

--
Robert M. Münch
Saphirion AG

http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster

On 2013-01-05 19:54:11 +0000, Nick Sabalausky said:

> This is the first I've heard of BEEP, but my guess so far is that the
> main website for it:
> 
> http://beepcore.org/
> 
> Provides no explanation for how to use it beyond linking to a series of
> long-winded and poorly-formatted RFCs, plus the site doesn't offer a
> clear link to any ready-to-use lib. Either of those problems alone is
> enough to turn away most people.

Sure, it's not marketed professional. There is a lot of stuff in the IT sector that suffers this. I learned not to decided on this but take a look, at least spend some time to get an understanding. Most of the time it paid off.

> In other words, bad marketing. Unfortunate, since it sounds like a good
> idea upon my first glance of it

It is.

> (aside from its choice to use XML for
> certain things, which IMO is too much of an _unnecessary_ baggage for
> something as low level as BEEP.)

Well, I don't like XML too, but it's not a showstopper in this case. And the Vortex lib doesn't rely on it.

--
Robert M. Münch
Saphirion AG

http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster

On 2013-01-05 22:33:45 +0000, Rob T said:

> Funny you mentioned this, because a few years back when I thought BEEP was a great idea, that's exactly what happened to me. I could not easily get a grasp on how it worked, there were not even any examples. What really killed it for me was the only BEEP library I could find was broken, and I really did not want to try patching it up when I did not even fully understand what it was supposed to be doing.

The Vortex library is a good one (if not the only really matured one), actively developed and maintained. It's a no-brainer to get it compiled, has a lot of examples, test-suite, good docs etc. all there.

> Try searching Google for BEEP, bad choice of name. But then we use "D"!

:-) Yep.

--
Robert M. Münch
Saphirion AG

http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster

On Friday, 11 January 2013 at 09:13:56 UTC, Robert M. Münch wrote:
> The Vortex library is a good one (if not the only really matured one), actively developed and maintained. It's a no-brainer to get it compiled, has a lot of examples, test-suite, good docs etc. all there.

Back in the day when I first tried BEEP, All I knew about was the beepcore-c library, but I see it's now dead, and it may have been dead already when I was attempting to use it. I was not as knowledgeable back then.

Ah crap, now you got me reconsidering BEEP again ...

BTW my understanding of the XML is that it's only used minimally for control and configuration reasons. However given perhaps better alternatives these days, a re-imagining of BEEP may be a good idea.

>> Try searching Google for BEEP, bad choice of name. But then we use "D"!
>
> :-) Yep.

... and I could go on pointing out many other failings with D that are in-line with doing the opposite of what you should be doing in terms of marketing, but it's all fixable, one step at a time, just needs the right people to make it so.

--rt

On 2013-01-11 17:54:33 +0000, Rob T said:

> Back in the day when I first tried BEEP, All I knew about was the beepcore-c library, but I see it's now dead, and it may have been dead already when I was attempting to use it. I was not as knowledgeable back then.

Yes, take a look at Vortex. It plays in a total different league.

> Ah crap, now you got me reconsidering BEEP again ...

:-) You are not alone. So, let me know or PM me.

> BTW my understanding of the XML is that it's only used minimally for control and configuration reasons.

Right. It's really no big deal. Vortex converts the XML config stuff into a compile unit and links it directly into your app. So no config files necessary.

And as long as you don't need generic servers that can handle protocol announcements etc. you just make a channel and your peers know what to do with it.

> However given perhaps better alternatives these days, a re-imagining of BEEP may be a good idea.

IMO it is. There is a JavaScript, Lua and Python version too. Since mobile apps are en vogue and these all need network stuff, IMO BEEP is a great thing. I make my life simple and avoid wasting time with the basics of good protocol design and implementation.

-- 
Robert M. Münch
Saphirion AG

http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster