Le 24/10/2014 15:26, Meta a écrit :
> On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 13:04:48 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:42:47 +0000
>> Martin Nowak via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 02:44:48 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
>>> > I always just use the zip which works fine out of the box > without
>>> even needing to be installed.
>>>
>>> We're missing an installation guide on a prominent place on the front
>>> page.
>>> Such things really scare away a lot of people.
>> if we scaring away people who can't download and run one .exe, this
>> can't be bad thing. there is clear link do download insteller on
>> dlang.org. when i was in need to write simple program on win8 box, i
>> downloaded that .exe, started it, pressed some "next" and "finish"
>> buttons and... voila, dmd compiler is here and working. if this is way
>> too hard for someone, then i doubt that he should write programs at all.
>
> There are other more subtle problems that someone can run into. One
> problem I've encountered on Windows is that having a '+' in your path
> trips up Optlink (Notepad++ triggered this issue for me). Linking starts
> failing for no apparent reason, and it is extremely frustrating until
> you figure out what's wrong (and still maddening afterword to think that
> such a stupid bug exists). Let's try to help debug the problem rather
> than making presumptions about OPs technical knowledge.

Yep I got this issue, I spent a long time to figure it out.

Otherwise installation is pretty simple and standard for a developer.

Le 24/10/2014 15:45, ketmar via Digitalmars-d a écrit :
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:26:15 +0000
> Meta via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> Let's try to help debug the problem rather than making
>> presumptions about OPs technical knowledge.
> that's only if OP wants his problem to be solved. here it's clear that
> he doesn't want to solve the problem, as he gives no details at all
> (not even OS, let alone describing what he did and what he got). there
> is nothing to help with. it's not about tone of OP posting, it's about
> having nothing to start with. should we torture him to get that gory
> details?
>

Writing programs isn't just as fun as launching a game, it's often frustrating,... Success isn't immediate.
Like you tell, if he complains without any information about his environment that could be the issue, it's just like he doesn't really want investigate himself in D, so we can't do nothing.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:31:45 +0200
Xavier Bigand via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Writing programs isn't just as fun as launching a game, it's often frustrating,... Success isn't immediate.
ah, launching a game can be sooooo frustrating... imagine a game that AVs or just plainly refuses to launch. and you can do nothing with this 'cause you have no source code to debug. ;-)

On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 13:45:10 UTC, ketmar via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:26:15 +0000
> Meta via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> Let's try to help debug the problem rather than making presumptions about OPs technical knowledge.
> that's only if OP wants his problem to be solved. here it's clear that
> he doesn't want to solve the problem, as he gives no details at all
> (not even OS, let alone describing what he did and what he got). there
> is nothing to help with. it's not about tone of OP posting, it's about
> having nothing to start with. should we torture him to get that gory
> details?

Despite all rationale, priority should be in offering our
assistance, regardless of how futile it may be (Futile, because
in this case it's not likely he would have ever responded). It'd
be beneficial to atleast somewhat dispel D's "expert only" facade
that newcomers tend to get.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 22:46:58 +0000
Kyoji Klyden via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Despite all rationale, priority should be in offering our assistance, regardless of how futile it may be (Futile, because in this case it's not likely he would have ever responded). It'd be beneficial to atleast somewhat dispel D's "expert only" facade that newcomers tend to get.
that's why we have D.learn NG, where people tries not just answer to question, but explain the answer, and answer's hidden complexity if there is any, and so on. i rarely see answers with just a fixed code in D.learn, almost always there is an explanation what was done wrong and why, and how to do the things right (and why).

i believe that D.general is for advanced users. but even then people will get detailed answers here if that people really want to solve their troubles.

On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 23:05:49 UTC, ketmar via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> that's why we have D.learn NG, where people tries not just answer to
> question, but explain the answer, and answer's hidden complexity if
> there is any, and so on. i rarely see answers with just a fixed code in
> D.learn, almost always there is an explanation what was done wrong and
> why, and how to do the things right (and why).
>
> i believe that D.general is for advanced users. but even then people
> will get detailed answers here if that people really want to solve
> their troubles.

I wouldn't argue with that. Every time I've gone onto the learn
forum I've gotten very helpful answers. Though newcomers don't
always seem to find their way to learn ng for whatever variety of
reasons. Perhaps we should get a giant flashing button on the
homepage that says "Beginners click here!"? The button could then
take them around to all the right places, so they don't end up
like the poor OP.

I honestly don't know if I'm being serious or horribly sarcastic
at this point.;P

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:31:35 +0000
Kyoji Klyden via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't argue with that. Every time I've gone onto the learn forum I've gotten very helpful answers. Though newcomers don't always seem to find their way to learn ng for whatever variety of reasons. Perhaps we should get a giant flashing button on the homepage that says "Beginners click here!"? The button could then take them around to all the right places, so they don't end up like the poor OP.
> 
> I honestly don't know if I'm being serious or horribly sarcastic at this point.;P
we already moved D.learn to the top of the forums list. i believe that there is more things in play. like seasoned programmers who feel uncomfortable to ask questions in D.learn: "why, i'm not a newbie in programming, so 'learn' is not the right place to ask..." or newbies who doesn't want to look like newbies. ;-)

maybe renaming "D.learn" to "D.questions" can help here. i don't know.

On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 23:31:36 UTC, Kyoji Klyden wrote:
>
> I wouldn't argue with that. Every time I've gone onto the learn
> forum I've gotten very helpful answers. Though newcomers don't
> always seem to find their way to learn ng for whatever variety of
> reasons.

How does one submit a pull request to update the descriptions on the forum?  The forum doesn't seem to be part of dlang.org.

Should I have posted this question on D.Learn? :)

On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 23:44:23 UTC, ketmar via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> we already moved D.learn to the top of the forums list. i believe that
> there is more things in play. like seasoned programmers who feel
> uncomfortable to ask questions in D.learn: "why, i'm not a newbie in
> programming, so 'learn' is not the right place to ask..." or newbies
> who doesn't want to look like newbies. ;-)
>
> maybe renaming "D.learn" to "D.questions" can help here. i don't know.

I hadn't really consider that perspective. I feel like I've
fallen to that on an occasion or two. Basically end up going to
the world's end trying to find an answer when if I had just asked
on the forums from the start I would've been done with whatever
the issue was in about 5 minutes.

I'm not sure what else we could call it though.. D.ask?
.questions is good.
Or maybe we should just tell everyone to get over themselves and
ask their damn questions already xD

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:59:08 +0000
Kyoji Klyden via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure what else we could call it though.. D.ask?
> .questions is good.
> Or maybe we should just tell everyone to get over themselves and
> ask their damn questions already xD
i believe we can do both things to get even stronger effect. ;-)