On 09/11/13 12:05, Philippe Sigaud wrote:
> I remember having friends coming from North Africa and speaking among themselves
> in Arabic, interspersed with French words, enough for me to get a global feeling
> of what was being said. Most interesting was that mathematical terms (that was
> during my studies) were all in French.

It's a consequence of the history of the education system -- with Arabic being the native language but French being the language of colonial administration and therefore the language of higher education, particularly things like maths. That split has persisted post-independence in much the same way that Latin persisted as the language of scholarship after the fall of the Roman empire.

You have exactly the same thing occurring in e.g. India with English -- and of course the English language itself is the long-term consequence of a similar blend between native (Anglo-Saxon) and elite (Norman French) languages.

Oh, on the mathematical terms -- when I was an undergraduate I had a professor who was Chinese, and one time I heard him on the phone to a Chinese colleague with the conversation going something like this: "[incomprehensible] x over y, [incomprehensible] integral of f dx ..."

Am 09.11.2013 13:25, schrieb Joseph Rushton Wakeling:
> On 09/11/13 07:33, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> I'm not French, but I lived in France and the French-speaking part of
>> Switerzland for two years, so I'm fairly fluent (though it's been
>> about 10
>> years now, so I'm sure that my French is getting worse).
>
> Really, where?  I lived in Fribourg for several years at about the same
> time ...

Me too! January 2003 - December 2004 in Geneva. :)

On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 12:02:17 UTC, Michel Fortin wrote:
> Wouldn't it be better to concentrate efforts on making the official D site and the forum interface multilingual? (and also incidentally add a French forum here?) Then this system can be expanded to other languages easily.

Well, dlang.org is a very good reference website, but as a beginner you can't use it easily to start programming in D. I want to make dlang-fr accessible to all the beginners with tutorials and easy-to-follow documentation.

I think dlang.org must keep like it is now ; a good advanced-programmer website, that make development of the language easy to maintain with advanced reference and docs. In my view that is not its job to promote D and make it accessible to beginners, but maybe I'm wrong ?

On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 12:23:53 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
> Si j'ai bien compris, il existe un deuxième génération du logiciel des forums et du site web de dlang.org, qui n'a jamais reçu une vrai épreuve.  Ça sera peut-être une bonne opportunité de réanimer le projet, plutôt qu'utiliser les forums en PHP ... ?
>
> (If I understand right, there's a second-generation version of the dlang.org website and forum software that has never actually been put into action. Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to try it out, rather than using PHP-based forum software?)

Didn't know.

> Tu parles l'anglais comme une indigène.  C'est à nous anglophones de nous excuser pour le français terrible! ;-)

I'm not sure what do you mean :'/

On 2013-11-09 13:50, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:

> You have exactly the same thing occurring in e.g. India with English --
> and of course the English language itself is the long-term consequence
> of a similar blend between native (Anglo-Saxon) and elite (Norman
> French) languages.

Isn't English the official language in India, or one of them?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 09/11/13 13:02, Michel Fortin wrote:
> Wouldn't it be better to concentrate efforts on making the official D site and
> the forum interface multilingual? (and also incidentally add a French forum
> here?) Then this system can be expanded to other languages easily.

Raises a good point: how can one reliably provide multilingual DDoc?

On 09/11/13 14:29, "Théo.B" <munrek@gmx.com>"@puremagic.com wrote:
>> Tu parles l'anglais comme une indigène.  C'est à nous anglophones de nous
>> excuser pour le français terrible! ;-)
>
> I'm not sure what do you mean :'/

My point in a nutshell. :-)

On 09/11/13 14:29, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> Isn't English the official language in India, or one of them?

One of them, yes.  As I understand it has particular use as a common language for government and higher education.

On 11/9/13 1:49 AM, Raphaël Jakse wrote:
> Le 09/11/2013 09:53, matovitch a écrit :
>> On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 08:32:24 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>> On Friday, November 08, 2013 23:51:16 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>> On 11/8/13 11:43 PM, Raphaël Jakse wrote:
>>>> > Le 09/11/2013 08:21, John J a écrit :
>>>> >> On 11/09/2013 01:40 AM, Philippe Sigaud wrote:
>>>> >>> I don't even know how to say 'template' in French.
>>>> >> >> Do they really need to translate keywords like 'template' >>
>>>> into French,
>>>> >> for that matter into any other language?
>>>> > > I've still not translated the chapter about template so I > have
>>>> not
>>>> > decided anything yet.
>>>> > > My guideline is to translate everything (I hate >
>>>> speaking/reading about
>>>> > computer science with people who use three English works by > French
>>>> > sentance) and give the English counterpart the first time to > be
>>>> able to
>>>> > find help in the English world.
>>>> > > Also, using French words when speaking about computer > science
>>>> helps
>>>> > speaking about computer science with people who are not into > it,
>>>> I'm
>>>> > really attached to this.
>>>> > > The French translation for template is "modèle", I think > I'll
>>>> use this
>>>> > one. I'm okay with also giving the English "template" in my >
>>>> translation,
>>>> > but not use it (If somebody disagrees, I'm open to talk)
>>>> > > I had a really hard time translating "slice". I opted for >
>>>> "tranche".
>>>>
>>>> morceau?
>>>
>>> I suppose that that would work, but I believe that tranche would be
>>> the more
>>> direct translation (certainly, it's what's used when talking about
>>> slices of
>>> bread). However, I don't know if there's another word that happens to
>>> have
>>> more accurate connotations in this case.
>>>
>>> Given French's more limited vocabulary and resistance to adding new
>>> words,
>>> translating technical terms has got to be a royal pain (and then
>>> L'Académie
>>> Française gets ticked when folks use English words for new stuff). I
>>> had my
>>> desktop in French for a while at one point, which definitely improved my
>>> vocabulary. For better or worse, a lot of technical words seem to get
>>> translated very literally, which gets interesting sometimes
>>> (particularly when
>>> there doesn't seem to really be a direct translation available). But I
>>> expect
>>> that it's often the same in other languages, though maybe some of them
>>> are
>>> more open to just using the English word.
>>>
>>> - Jonathan M Davis
>>
>> "Intervalle" ?
>> What about the range translation ?
>
> I think the translation for "range" in French is "intervalle". It is
> what I chose for Ali's book.
>
> tranche seems more undertandable to me in this context than "morceau",
> though "morceau" is an interesting option I didn't consider :-).

There's also "coupe".

Andrei

On 2013-11-09 13:40:10 +0000, Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling@webdrake.net> said:

> On 09/11/13 13:02, Michel Fortin wrote:
>> Wouldn't it be better to concentrate efforts on making the official D site and
>> the forum interface multilingual? (and also incidentally add a French forum
>> here?) Then this system can be expanded to other languages easily.
> 
> Raises a good point: how can one reliably provide multilingual DDoc?

Well, there are two kinds of DDoc. Whole pages and symbol descriptions. For whole pages, well you just duplicate the structure in a "fr" subfolder (and in the build script make sure buttons are added to switch from one language to another).

For symbol descriptions (including modules), I think the best way would be to have a translation table of some sort using the symbol's fully qualified name as a key. And also ideally a system that tells you which documentation snippets have been updated in the current build since the last translation in a given language. This system could also point out whole pages that needs to be updated (preferably with a diff view of some sort).

It's more work at first than creating a separate site, but in the end it'll pay off by being easier to keep up to date. Also, the main site being available in multiple languages is more welcoming that splitting communities on various satellite sites each doing their own thing.

(Also note that I have nothing against satellite sites doing their own thing. I'm just making the point that if someone wants to take a significant part of dlang.org and translate it, it'd be best if the translation was available on dlang.org in a well structured manner.)

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin@michelf.ca
http://michelf.ca