On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on GUIs and doing their own thing.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

Probably nothing, since they have PowerShell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis >wrote:
On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>
> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on GUIs and doing their own thing.

MYSYS 2[1] is bash for Windows and has many Linux tools available, using packman to manage them. Then there's also git Bash[2], which is primarily focused on git but does provide other tools (nowhere near what's available for MSYS 2, though).

[1] http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/MSYS2%20installation/
[2] https://git-for-windows.github.io/

On 25/09/15 4:11 PM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows
>> programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and
>> started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper
>> command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh
>> with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any
>> reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on
>> GUIs and doing their own thing.
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> Probably nothing, since they have PowerShell
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
>

Unfortunately yup that is there replacement.
Funny thing, the only people really using it are networkers. Not programmers. Who would have thought?
Even though it is C# like and supports .net libs.

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 04:38:36 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
> On 25/09/15 4:11 PM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows
>>> programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and
>>> started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper
>>> command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh
>>> with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any
>>> reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on
>>> GUIs and doing their own thing.
>>>
>>> - Jonathan M Davis
>>
>> Probably nothing, since they have PowerShell
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
>>
>
> Unfortunately yup that is there replacement.
> Funny thing, the only people really using it are networkers. Not programmers. Who would have thought?
> Even though it is C# like and supports .net libs.

you guys are nuts.
instead of thinking about this shit, you should think about how to make D usable for windows programmers.
don't think about linux crutsches. in my company people are not even willing to think about D, since it has stone age tools, few usable libraries and is changing at a rate that is incredible.
now c# will be compiled to machine code - people you lost.

On 25/09/15 5:55 PM, jdeath wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 04:38:36 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
>> On 25/09/15 4:11 PM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
>>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>>> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows
>>>> programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and
>>>> started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper
>>>> command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh
>>>> with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any
>>>> reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on
>>>> GUIs and doing their own thing.
>>>>
>>>> - Jonathan M Davis
>>>
>>> Probably nothing, since they have PowerShell
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately yup that is there replacement.
>> Funny thing, the only people really using it are networkers. Not
>> programmers. Who would have thought?
>> Even though it is C# like and supports .net libs.
>
> you guys are nuts.
> instead of thinking about this shit, you should think about how to make
> D usable for windows programmers.
> don't think about linux crutsches. in my company people are not even
> willing to think about D, since it has stone age tools, few usable
> libraries and is changing at a rate that is incredible.
> now c# will be compiled to machine code - people you lost.

Yeahhhh I totally only think about *nix.
https://github.com/rikkimax/alphaPhobos/blob/master/source/std/experimental/platform.d

Even though my main pc is Windows and I use Cygwin.

I'm doing my best to fix this situation. It is not an easy one to do.
Sorry I get that you want it done *now*, but unless you are willing to help, it won't be done any faster.

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 05:55:08 UTC, jdeath wrote:
> you guys are nuts.
> instead of thinking about this shit, you should think about how to make D usable for windows programmers.

I also write D on windows.

> don't think about linux crutsches. in my company people are not even willing to think about D, since it has stone age tools, few usable libraries and is changing at a rate that is incredible.

Maybe D just isn't for them? No harm. It certainly requires early adopters and a leap of faith. That clashes with most businesses. I can't blame them.

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 04:38:36 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
> On 25/09/15 4:11 PM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows
>>> programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and
>>> started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper
>>> command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh
>>> with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any
>>> reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on
>>> GUIs and doing their own thing.
>>>
>>> - Jonathan M Davis
>>
>> Probably nothing, since they have PowerShell
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
>>
>
> Unfortunately yup that is there replacement.
> Funny thing, the only people really using it are networkers. Not programmers. Who would have thought?
> Even though it is C# like and supports .net libs.

This is not funny even for an Windows admin. Managing Microsoft Exchange is done 90% from command line, and our mail admin is complaining constantly for the lack of desktop tools (we even bought some gui tools for that). Luckily, the last Exchange version has a nice web interface for administration. Command line is limited for visual tasks like adding and resizing pictures of the employees in the address book, for example.

I don't buy this, command line is something obsolete compared to any gui/web interface, at least in Windows world.

Starting Visual Studio on my machine takes 2 seconds, i don't buy either the fact it's easier to write your own batch file to compile code instead of clicking some checkboxes or switching instantly between Debug/Release versions of your code. And I don't use dub, last time I checked, it's messing with my AppData folder. I prefer to press F6 to compile my code.

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> Unfortunately, at my current job, we're entirely Windows, so everything's a huge mess in VS rather than using cmake, and most of the devs are totally Windows devs, so they'd probably freak out at the idea that the .vcproj files are generated, and you don't edit any settings inside of VS.

When we had around 100+ .vcxproj, I started making a static analyzer to check them.
At 150+, someone made a build tool with versionned dependencies that also generated .vcxproj. It was remarkably similar to DUB.

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 04:26:26 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis
> >wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>
>> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on GUIs and doing their own thing.
>
> MYSYS 2[1] is bash for Windows and has many Linux tools available, using packman to manage them. Then there's also git Bash[2], which is primarily focused on git but does provide other tools (nowhere near what's available for MSYS 2, though).
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/MSYS2%20installation/
> [2] https://git-for-windows.github.io/

I currently use the bash shell that gets installed with git (so I assume that that's the git bash that you mention), and it's a significant improvement over having to deal with what Windows provides, but it's still a far cry from actually having a full-blown *nix environment. I'll have to take a look at msys at some point, and maybe I should look at cygwin again (I had a number of problems with it when I tried it last, but that was several years ago now).

- Jonathan M Davis

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 05:55:08 UTC, jdeath wrote:
> you guys are nuts.
> instead of thinking about this shit, you should think about how to make D usable for windows programmers.
> don't think about linux crutsches. in my company people are not even willing to think about D, since it has stone age tools, few usable libraries and is changing at a rate that is incredible.
> now c# will be compiled to machine code - people you lost.

There are people working on writing and supporting tools that fit better with the mindset of many Windows-centric devs (e.g. that's why we have VisualD). But for the most part, the kinds of folks who have been using D don't seem to care much about that sort of thing, and there's tons of other stuff to work on, so many of them work on other stuff. With open source projects, folks tend to work on what they care about or view as important. For some folks, that's IDEs and build tools and the like, but for many others, it's the language itself or libraries.

You can choose to use D or not, and you can choose to work on D-related stuff or not (which could be GUI-centric tools if that's what you care about), but just because you want something doesn't mean that that's what the other folks working on a project want or care about it, and just because the folks that you work with don't like where D is with Windows-centric tools doesn't mean that D is a lost cause. It just means that it doesn't fit what you're looking for right now.

- Jonathan M Davis