On 1/10/2016 3:09 PM, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 10 January 2016 at 23:33, anonymous via Digitalmars-d
> <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com <mailto:digitalmars-d@puremagic.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 10.01.2016 22:18, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>
>         I echo this, and would add a further point that you should have
>         tested all
>         sub-domains before uploading.  Release archive is not looking well.
>
>         http://downloads.dlang.org/
>
>
>     Uhm, where can I fix that? downloads.dlang.org
>     <http://downloads.dlang.org> isn't part of the of dlang.org
>     <http://dlang.org> repository, is it?
>
>
>
> This is on Amazon S3.
>
> Brad, this is your domain.  Can you have a look?  (Not sure if you
> monitor your emails :-)

These days I just pay for it.  Our very capable release manager manages the content of it.

On 2016-01-10 21:23, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

> You're right, sorry about getting too enthusiastic. Should we undo? --
> Andrei

That depends on how many new issues have appeared, how much trouble they cause and how much trouble it is do a rollback. It might be easier to roll forward.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2016-01-11 00:31, anonymous wrote:

> I think it was Adam who spoke out against :hover menus, preferring to
> click instead. So we're at 1:1 now, I guess?

Do both?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 09.01.2016 23:24, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> Once this is merged, would you be OK with working together on updating
> the forum to the new design?

I wanted to have a look at DFeed, but all I get with a local clone is "Internal Server Error". After investigating a bit, I suspect that there should be a web/skel.htt file, but it's not in the repository.

On 10.01.2016 16:23, anonymous wrote:
> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/1187

That one was pulled prematurely, and then reverted.

Round 2: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/1190

On Sunday, 10 January 2016 at 23:31:07 UTC, anonymous wrote:
> On 10.01.2016 22:14, deadalnix wrote:
>>   - Learn barely make the cut on my 15' monitor. That's way too low. If
>> one doesn't know D, one doesn't care about news, community or whatever.
>
> We can shuffle things around, of course. One alternative:
>
> Learn News
> Documentation Community
> Packages Contribute
>
> http://i.imgur.com/8mQj0rg.png
>
> This would make Learn the most prominent item.
>
> There is an empty void between Learn and Documentation. It could be filled by putting more into Learn. I don't know what to write there, though.
>

No, nothing more needs to be added. Things needs to be removed, not added. I tested on a 15" screen, not even on a small screen.

>>   - Please don't make me click on the menus. You can also make them work
>> with pure CSS using :hover
>
> I think it was Adam who spoke out against :hover menus, preferring to click instead. So we're at 1:1 now, I guess?

:hover is pretty much mandatory. Website need to work without JS.

On 11.01.2016 13:54, deadalnix wrote:
> No, nothing more needs to be added. Things needs to be removed, not
> added. I tested on a 15" screen, not even on a small screen.

As far as I understand, you're saying that Learn is too far down. I'm saying we can fix that by moving it up to the first row. That would fix the problem, right? I don't see how adding some lines to Learn would be problematic then.

> :hover is pretty much mandatory. Website need to work without JS.

The site works without JS. Not as smoothly, but it works.

On Monday, 11 January 2016 at 12:54:46 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> On Sunday, 10 January 2016 at 23:31:07 UTC, anonymous wrote:
>> On 10.01.2016 22:14, deadalnix wrote:
>>>   - Learn barely make the cut on my 15' monitor. That's way too low. If
>>> one doesn't know D, one doesn't care about news, community or whatever.
>>
>> We can shuffle things around, of course. One alternative:
>>
>> Learn News
>> Documentation Community
>> Packages Contribute
>>
>> http://i.imgur.com/8mQj0rg.png
>>
>> This would make Learn the most prominent item.
>>
>> There is an empty void between Learn and Documentation. It could be filled by putting more into Learn. I don't know what to write there, though.
>>
>
> No, nothing more needs to be added. Things needs to be removed, not added. I tested on a 15" screen, not even on a small screen.

If there was a very slight border around each section (Learn, News, Documentation etc) then that gap between Learn and Documentation wouldn't look so... empty?

>>>   - Please don't make me click on the menus. You can also make them work
>>> with pure CSS using :hover
>>
>> I think it was Adam who spoke out against :hover menus, preferring to click instead. So we're at 1:1 now, I guess?
>
> :hover is pretty much mandatory. Website need to work without JS.

What was Adams gripe with :hover? I can't see a problem with it, as long as clicking still works as it does now (for mobile).

On Monday, 11 January 2016 at 13:18:26 UTC, wobbles wrote:
> What was Adams gripe with :hover? I can't see a problem with it, as long as clicking still works as it does now (for mobile).

I click on my URL bar and punch in "interesting-site.com". It loads and I move my mouse down to a link or text field that I actually want on the page and click...

But as the mouse went down from the address bar to the site, I happened to pass over a hover menu. My click is now intercepted and I'm sent to some entirely different page. Really annoying. (My bank's website had a login right below a hover menu, they have fixed it recently, but for the longest time, I'd want to log in but accidentally be sent to the bank officers list instead!)


Or, I'm trying to copy something from a hover element and the page size suddenly changes with it being there... which now puts my mouse pointer outside the hover, which causes it to disappear, which changes the page size again, and now I'm just lost. (A lot of web sites assume the page will be pixel-identical on all screens, but I disable web fonts, so your menus are often not exactly the same size on my screen...)

Similarly, something near the edge of a hover can be really hard to click with shaky hands, or sometimes errant margins on hovers (you'd think debugging would catch this, but I see it on live sites too, including big ones like Facebook) mean mousing over the gap to get to a link causes the link to disappear! Really frustrating.

I'd imagine it is even worse if you have poor dexterity in general, so there's the accessibility aspect too.


There's also no such thing as hover on devices without a mouse, which used to be just fossils like me using our lynx browser, but now includes a large number of people on the touch screens (though I question how many of them are actually doing programming so I don't think we should optimize specifically for them, but sometimes new users will check out a language mentioned to them on such a device so we don't want to leave them completely out either.)

Of course, a click fallback handles those people.


But even when - especially when - I have a device that supports hover, I dislike it.


I think the drop down list is completely worthless on dlang.org anyway. Things moving around are harder to locate than a static thing, your spacial memory leads you to the wrong place then. I'd rather have a single click bring you to an info page with the other links.

On Monday, 11 January 2016 at 14:27:51 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> On Monday, 11 January 2016 at 13:18:26 UTC, wobbles wrote:
>> What was Adams gripe with :hover? I can't see a problem with it, as long as clicking still works as it does now (for mobile).
>
> I click on my URL bar and punch in "interesting-site.com". It loads and I move my mouse down to a link or text field that I actually want on the page and click...
>
> But as the mouse went down from the address bar to the site, I happened to pass over a hover menu. My click is now intercepted and I'm sent to some entirely different page. Really annoying. (My bank's website had a login right below a hover menu, they have fixed it recently, but for the longest time, I'd want to log in but accidentally be sent to the bank officers list instead!)
>
>
> Or, I'm trying to copy something from a hover element and the page size suddenly changes with it being there... which now puts my mouse pointer outside the hover, which causes it to disappear, which changes the page size again, and now I'm just lost. (A lot of web sites assume the page will be pixel-identical on all screens, but I disable web fonts, so your menus are often not exactly the same size on my screen...)
>
> Similarly, something near the edge of a hover can be really hard to click with shaky hands, or sometimes errant margins on hovers (you'd think debugging would catch this, but I see it on live sites too, including big ones like Facebook) mean mousing over the gap to get to a link causes the link to disappear! Really frustrating.
>
> I'd imagine it is even worse if you have poor dexterity in general, so there's the accessibility aspect too.
>
>
> There's also no such thing as hover on devices without a mouse, which used to be just fossils like me using our lynx browser, but now includes a large number of people on the touch screens (though I question how many of them are actually doing programming so I don't think we should optimize specifically for them, but sometimes new users will check out a language mentioned to them on such a device so we don't want to leave them completely out either.)
>
> Of course, a click fallback handles those people.
>
>
> But even when - especially when - I have a device that supports hover, I dislike it.
>
>


Yeah, I can see why that is an annoyance. But there is ways around it, like using
transition-delay:0.200s [1] (or some other time that's quite small, so it doesn't impact the user actually trying to look at the drop down menu).
That will prevent any annoying issues arising from moving the mouse across the web page.

> I think the drop down list is completely worthless on dlang.org anyway. Things moving around are harder to locate than a static thing, your spacial memory leads you to the wrong place then. I'd rather have a single click bring you to an info page with the other links.

The above solution doesn't solve this of course, as you just think having a drop-down is a bad design decision :)

How else would you lay it out?
I dont think you could put all the content in that top bar pre-expanded - so you'd have all the menus on the left as it is on the current site?


[1] http://dabblet.com/gist/1498446