On 12/14/2014 09:37 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> Sadly, I failed to create a new commercial D user this week, and I'm
> really disappointed.
> It was rejected for exactly the same practical reasons I've been saying forever.

Doesn't surprise me too much to be honest. We aren't there yet and I'm always a bit uneasy when someone runs around advertising D to professional users.

On 15 December 2014 at 07:19, Nick B via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 15:03:27 UTC, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
>
>> Lastly, when judging all these things, please always try to remember that almost all the work that goes into D (and vibe.d) is non-profit and everyone usually only contributes what (s)he is missing. If I would get payed through a support contract for my work on vibe.d, I could adjust my priorities to suit the requirements of others more, but like this I still have to somehow make sure to be able to pay my bills and can't just work full time to help other (commercial) projects (although I always try to help as far as possible).
>
>
> Sonke, Can you advise how much a support contract for a individual or company seriously interested in using vibe.d might cost ?

Good point, I think you should really put a price on commercial
support if you want it to be taken seriously.
There are lots of companies that wouldn't seriously consider it if it
DIDN'T cost them some money. If they don't pay any money, it doesn't
look legit or professional ;)

On 12/14/2014 9:10 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 15 December 2014 at 07:19, Nick B via Digitalmars-d
> <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>> Sonke, Can you advise how much a support contract for a individual or
>> company seriously interested in using vibe.d might cost ?
>
> Good point, I think you should really put a price on commercial
> support if you want it to be taken seriously.
> There are lots of companies that wouldn't seriously consider it if it
> DIDN'T cost them some money. If they don't pay any money, it doesn't
> look legit or professional ;)


It does look like a great opportunity for Sönke! He gets paid, vibe.d gets better, the community gets another commercial user, it's a win all around!

(Of course, that applies to all of you folks working on open source D code - think about doing contract support for it.)

On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 15:03:27 UTC, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> <snip />
>
> Lastly, when judging all these things, please always try to remember that almost all the work that goes into D (and vibe.d) is non-profit and everyone usually only contributes what (s)he is missing. If I would get payed through a support contract for my work on vibe.d, I could adjust my priorities to suit the requirements of others more, but like this I still have to somehow make sure to be able to pay my bills and can't just work full time to help other (commercial) projects (although I always try to help as far as possible).
>
> Sönke

How about adding a support section to vibed.org with possible support options you could consider? :-)

On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 21:00:13 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 19:40:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> <snip />
>
> One thing I ran into often when I was inexperienced with D:
>   the template constraints make some signatures extremely messy, and it takes a while to figure out when you have e.g. 3 template functions of the same name in
> std.algorithm, all with crypric signatures.
>
> <snip />

Super nice idea!
Create a PR for this?

On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 23:25:24 UTC, uri wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 15:36:47 UTC, yawniek wrote:
>> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 14:09:57 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>>>
>>> As always, different tools for different uses.  Hopefully, D can one day be polished and mainstream enough for the enterprise use case and it will be efficient enough to be deployed at scale too. :)
>>
>> when will that be? windows version 25, sqlite version 1147?
> ...[snip]...
>
> Perhaps when more people start helping out we'll see things progress more quickly.
>
> D needs more than developers. Right now it needs a few volunteers who will update the web site; documentation, news feeds of recent PRs closed, recent PRs that are generating interesting discussion, roadmaps for the next 12 months indicating what core devs are working and status. Stuff that get's people excited about the next release and the future of D.
>
> Cheers,
> uri

Speaking of getting more people involve.
There are some great suggestions in this reddit thread and in the linked article:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2p9ff3/how_to_get_started_with_open_source/

On 15/12/2014 8:14 p.m., NVolcz wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 23:25:24 UTC, uri wrote:
>> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 15:36:47 UTC, yawniek wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 14:09:57 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As always, different tools for different uses.  Hopefully, D can one
>>>> day be polished and mainstream enough for the enterprise use case
>>>> and it will be efficient enough to be deployed at scale too. :)
>>>
>>> when will that be? windows version 25, sqlite version 1147?
>> ...[snip]...
>>
>> Perhaps when more people start helping out we'll see things progress
>> more quickly.
>>
>> D needs more than developers. Right now it needs a few volunteers who
>> will update the web site; documentation, news feeds of recent PRs
>> closed, recent PRs that are generating interesting discussion,
>> roadmaps for the next 12 months indicating what core devs are working
>> and status. Stuff that get's people excited about the next release and
>> the future of D.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> uri
>
> Speaking of getting more people involve.
> There are some great suggestions in this reddit thread and in the linked
> article:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2p9ff3/how_to_get_started_with_open_source/
For reference http://openhatch.org/ has no D projects.

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 01:30:00 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 December 2014 at 08:37:36 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> We were trying to use vibe.d, and we encountered bugs.
>>
>> We were unable to build Win64 code ...
>
> Here is exactly your problem - trying to do a web development on Windows :P Really I have never understood that counter-productive obsession with a habit that makes people differentiate development environments and production environments so much. You aren't going to use Windows servers, are you?

Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.

If you want to appeal to those users, D has to be better than the whole .NET eco-system, specially now that static binaries are going to be supported as well.

Not to mention the C++ tooling which is just great.

--
Paulo

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 07:48:37 UTC, Paulo  Pinto wrote:
> Well, lots of Fortune 500 companies do.

I have heard good enough first 9000 times, thanks.

> If you want to appeal to those users

No.

On 2014-12-14 22:00, Kiith-Sa wrote:

> One thing I ran into often when I was inexperienced with D:
>    the template constraints make some signatures extremely messy, and it
> takes a while to figure out when you have e.g. 3 template functions of
> the same name in
> std.algorithm, all with crypric signatures.
>
> Example:
>
> ptrdiff_t countUntil(alias pred = "a == b", R, Rs...)(R haystack, Rs
> needles) if (isForwardRange!R && Rs.length > 0 && isForwardRange!(Rs[0])
> == isInputRange!(Rs[0]) && is(typeof(startsWith!pred(haystack,
> needles[0]))) && (Rs.length == 1 || is(typeof(countUntil!pred(haystack,
> needles[1..$])))));
> ptrdiff_t countUntil(alias pred = "a == b", R, N)(R haystack, N needle)
> if (isInputRange!R && is(typeof(binaryFun!pred(haystack.front, needle))
> : bool));
>
> countUntil is trivial to use, but the docs make it seem complicated
> and it takes a while to read them.
> (This is not really a good example as with countUntil it's not *that*
>   bad, but I think it should be enough to show the problem)
>
> In this specific case, it would be useful if the constraint was somehow
> separated from the rest of the signature and less emphasized (CSS).

I completely agree. Using default arguments with values like __FILE__ and __LINE__ makes it look complicated as well, and though those parameters are most likely never used. The upcoming std.log is perfect example of this issue [1].

[1] http://burner.github.io/phobos/phobos-prerelease/std_logger_core.html#.logc

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg