On 27/07/14 01:42, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> Maybe this is arrogant or whatever, but my view is that I'm kinda maxed out as a
> programmer. Sure, there's a handful of specific things (like framework method
> names) I don't know and some concepts I don't know the names of, but as for like
> revolutionary new lessons, I don't think I've actually learned anything like
> that directly related to programming for a pretty long time.

There are many ways to grow, and the most important one need not necessarily be programming.

Personally, I tend to find that growth as a programmer tends to come as a consequence of problems that need to be solved with programming.  Reading about new ideas and techniques is great -- of course I do this -- but it's actually finding a problem of my own that they are relevant to which really makes them sink in and allows me to feel their value.

Then there's things that are not programming per se but that feed into it -- the research literature on many different topics, or topics such as the social and psychological dynamics of how people use software, or collaborate on software, or interact when using software.  Or, as Walter has already pointed out, the ways in which new hardware, and new hardware environments, change the ways in which software can be written and needs to be written.

Put another way, while sometimes it's useful to think of programming in a somewhat isolated or theoretical sense, most of the time I find it more inspiring to think about the whole range of things that programming interacts with.

And of course, ultimately, sometimes it is very good to take a break from learning more in a particular area and go and work on other things for a while.  We all need fun, and we all need stimulus that comes from unexpected things that are not part of our habitual activities.

On 7/26/2014 5:58 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> I've to say, that learning D and contributing to D has greatly expanded
> my programming horizons. I've been doing C/C++ for about 2 decades, and
> about 8 years ago I felt I'd started to taper off in terms of learning
> new things in programming. Until I found D, that is. D made hard /
> complex things in C++ easy, and opened up new horizons -- like weak
> purity, range-based component programming, new possibilities in
> metaprogramming, etc..
>
> Contributing to Phobos was also quite eye-opening in learning about
> novel ways of handling common tasks in a standard library. I daresay I
> learned more contributing to Phobos than from my full-time job (mainly C
> with some C++ and a smattering of Javascript, PHP, and some other
> stuff).
>
>
> T
>
Sorry if this is too off-topic, please tell me if so. As I read the D newsgroup I notice that a lot of you guys who are really quite knowledgeable about languages are doing things like C programming as a day job.

I recently (like 2 weeks ago) resigned my current job of over 10 years. One of the reasons is that the work has veered too far from why I got into this career in the first place. The code for the product, in C++, has been largely finished (by me) so the only coding I do is small modifications to it. Mostly what I do now is what follows that: customizations for OEM customers, Windows installers, rebuilding the product, testing, testing, certification testing. There are more issues, but I'll spare you :-).

I do try to learn more about things like Haskell and D and meta-programming and ranges, etc., but there isn't so much time when your regular job takes up over 40 hours a week.  With programming, I feel like you can read about something but you can't really be proficient at it until you use it hands-on and practice it regularly. So I think it helps to try to find a job where you can do some of that during work time. I hope to do that. But then I read here where a lot of you guys have day jobs not even doing C++ but C programming, I feel like some of you are in the same boat, and more so because you're more knowledgeable than me.

So how do you feel about that?

Jim

On Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 15:15:31 UTC, Jim Hewes wrote:
> I do try to learn more about things like Haskell and D and meta-programming and ranges, etc., but there isn't so much time when your regular job takes up over 40 hours a week.  With programming, I feel like you can read about something but you can't really be proficient at it until you use it hands-on and practice it regularly. So I think it helps to try to find a job where you can do some of that during work time. I hope to do that. But then I read here where a lot of you guys have day jobs not even doing C++ but C programming, I feel like some of you are in the same boat, and more so because you're more knowledgeable than me.
>
> So how do you feel about that?
>
> Jim

Ironically after D has become part of my daily job I have found myself being less capable of contribution / participation :) Before it always felt like relief - being able to hack some nice D stuff after boring daily C routine. But now I more often find myself wanting to try something different simply for the sake of change.

On Saturday, 26 July 2014 at 23:42:33 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> Maybe this is arrogant or whatever, but my view is that I'm kinda maxed out as a programmer. Sure, there's a handful of specific things (like framework method names) I don't know and some concepts I don't know the names of, but as for like revolutionary new lessons, I don't think I've actually learned anything like that directly related to programming for a pretty long time.

I suppose it depends on what "related to programming" means. I presume you, like everyone else, could not write a general purpose AI, so we all still have that to learn. I'm guessing you'd classify that as more of an application rather than being directly related to programming?

The applications are where most of the fun is. There's so many algorithms, concepts, and theories to learn. I don't think I'll ever stop. Even with things directly-related-to-programming, there's lots for me to learn. I know very little about all the Haskell-level category theory stuff, and I really should spend some time to play with things like Forth to see what all the fuss is about there. I'm sure there are still many gems to discover.

On Saturday, 26 July 2014 at 23:42:33 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> On the topic of professional growth, I was asked this week in a work meeting what I think I can do for mine.... and I didn't really have an answer.
>
> Maybe this is arrogant or whatever, but my view is that I'm kinda maxed out as a programmer. Sure, there's a handful of specific things (like framework method names) I don't know and some concepts I don't know the names of, but as for like revolutionary new lessons, I don't think I've actually learned anything like that directly related to programming for a pretty long time.
>
> Then I was asked what about team dynamics and stuff... but even there, I've been doing this a pretty long time now. You know what I spend most my time talking about with my programming co-worker? Recipe swapping and church stuff. And I don't mean D Cookbook recipes, i mean stuff like baking bread and pies. We're both pretty good at our day jobs and tend to be on the same page on work related stuff more often than not anyway.

How's your mathematics and numerical analysis? There are always new horizons.

On Monday, 28 July 2014 at 07:42:39 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote:
> I suppose it depends on what "related to programming" means. I presume you, like everyone else, could not write a general purpose AI, so we all still have that to learn.

Why write it? Just give birth to a child.

On Monday, 28 July 2014 at 11:32:15 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
> On Monday, 28 July 2014 at 07:42:39 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote:
>> I suppose it depends on what "related to programming" means. I presume you, like everyone else, could not write a general purpose AI, so we all still have that to learn.
>
> Why write it? Just give birth to a child.

Humans are boring, we've got plenty of them already. Make something new, something different :)

On Monday, 28 July 2014 at 07:42:39 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote:
> I suppose it depends on what "related to programming" means. I presume you, like everyone else, could not write a general purpose AI, so we all still have that to learn.

Yeah, I'm defining it as basically something non-trivial that is to be learned by picking up a new programming language. There was a period where there was much I picked up that way - especially around seven years ago when I was doing Lisp, D for the first time, stuff like that. I could get on a bi-weekly meeting then and report all kinds of stuff. I kinda get macros now, I kinda get purity, but now the rate has slowed significantly.

> The applications are where most of the fun is.

depends on the applications :P

On Monday, 28 July 2014 at 09:22:29 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
> How's your mathematics and numerical analysis? There are always new horizons.

I'm very good at integral and differential calculus, I know the scientific names of beings animalcules, in short in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral, I am the very model of a modern major general.

On Monday, 28 July 2014 at 11:32:15 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
> Why write it? Just give birth to a child.

Giving birth would indeed be a new experience for me!