Better branding of -betterC (page 5)

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: > Zig seems like a copy of Jai. How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed?

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:31:56 UTC, bachmeier wrote: > On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: > >> Zig seems like a copy of Jai. > > How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed? It has been explained in videos and people have written documentation of the features based on that.

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:55:18 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: > On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:31:56 UTC, bachmeier wrote: >> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: >> >>> Zig seems like a copy of Jai. >> >> How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed? > > It has been explained in videos and people have written documentation of the features based on that. Jonathan Blow puts out like 3 hour long videos explaining stuff...most people don't have the patience to sit through that... Zig has some interesting features though

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:31:56 UTC, bachmeier wrote: > On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: > >> Zig seems like a copy of Jai. > > How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed? The betas available to those that applied to it, when it was announced, and the upcoming game that will be released.

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 20:17:02 UTC, Stefan Koch wrote: > On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:31:56 UTC, bachmeier wrote: >> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: >> >>> Zig seems like a copy of Jai. >> >> How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed? > > It is not vaporware. > It is in closed beta right now. I agree it's not vaporware but it does seem a strange way to write a compiler (even slowly).

On 10/30/20 9:55 PM, Walter Bright wrote: > On 10/29/2020 5:00 AM, rikki cattermole wrote: >> Runtime less D and pay-as-you-go. >> >> These are being worked on over time. They are basically the same thing, use as much of druntime as you want (i.e. some, or none). >> >> -betterC fills its role, and doesn't need rebranding. > > Future efforts with the library will be for so-called "header only" libraries, where one just imports the library module, and there's no need to link the library too. "Source only", as "header only" is a C++ term (no headers in D).

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 20:38:25 UTC, Max Haughton wrote: > On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 20:17:02 UTC, Stefan Koch wrote: >> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:31:56 UTC, bachmeier wrote: >>> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: >>> >>>> Zig seems like a copy of Jai. >>> >>> How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed? >> >> It is not vaporware. >> It is in closed beta right now. > > I agree it's not vaporware but it does seem a strange way to write a compiler (even slowly). Maybe it's strange. But I really like it. It's the responsible thing to do! Having a smaller number of people test-drive before releasing something! And therefore being able to fix it before impacting a greater number of people.

October 31, 2020

Re: Better branding of -betterC

Posted by Walter Bright
in reply to Paulo Pinto

Permalink

Walter Bright

Posted in reply to Paulo Pinto

Permalink

On 10/31/2020 9:22 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 01:57:19 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 10/29/2020 5:48 AM, Abdulhaq wrote:
>>> I'm pretty sure that Jai is not mimicking D, also I doubt that Zig is either.
>>
>> D popularized CTFE, and other languages followed suit, including Jai.
> 
> Sorry but that flag belongs to Lisp and Dylan macros, Java compiler plugins, Java/.NET manipulation of attributes/annotations

Those are not natively compiled languages, and the compiler is part of the runtime.

> and C++ template meta-programing.

Having implemented a full C++ compiler, I don't agree:

1. it was discovered as a side effect, not designed
2. it does not do iteration
3. it only does integers - not floating point, not strings, not pointers
4. it cannot allocate memory
5. it is incredibly limited
6. it cannot call or execute a single C++ function
7. C++ template metaprograms are limited to trivial ones, due to fundamental problems with it

and, most tellingly,

8. C++ has gone on to copy D's CTFE

> D CTFE has definitely a very important value, but not everything that other languages adopt was created by D.

I did say popularized, not created. To round this out a bit, the C preprocessor can do compile time computation, too, but to compare it to D's CTFE is like comparing the pre-existing electric arc lamp to to Edison's incandescent bulb, and saying the bulb wasn't revolutionary.

On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:55:18 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: > On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 19:31:56 UTC, bachmeier wrote: >> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 17:18:30 UTC, Dibyendu Majumdar wrote: >> >>> Zig seems like a copy of Jai. >> >> How do you copy vaporware? Or has there been a release of a single line of compileable Jai that I missed? > > It has been explained in videos and people have written documentation of the features based on that. That wouldn't make Zig an implementation, not a copy.

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