Which tools do you miss in D? (page 6)

Manu: > D ruined C/C++ for me, but my expectations of C/C++'s tooling still remains > a barrier to my enjoyment of writing D code all time time... I'm fucked! This is a recurring event in the Python world: Java/C++ programmers that try Python, find it much more productive and nice, and fall in love with it, and then can't use it because at work they are forced to use Java/C++ (or sometimes because Python is too much slow for their purposes). Sometimes the end result is that they are less happy than before in doing their daily work. So sometimes they end not suggesting Python to their colleagues to avoid them the same sad realization. I remember hearing something similar in Haskell community too, that is spoils you too much. Bye, bearophile

On 2014-01-28 17:41, Daniel Murphy wrote: > I have successfully produced working D compilers on win32, linux32, and > linux64. > > The generated d code preserves comments and is split up into multiple > source files. This looks awesome, keep up the good work. -- /Jacob Carlborg

On Monday, 27 January 2014 at 17:57:02 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote: > On 01/26/2014 09:29 PM, Oten wrote: >> Which tools do you miss in the D language? ... > > A fully working compiler for the most recent language version. So is dmd compiler not eable to compile the most recent language version?

On Monday, 27 January 2014 at 08:24:07 UTC, Manu wrote: > I'm quite serious, this is a true realisation of an unconscious behaviour. > D ruined C/C++ for me, but my expectations of C/C++'s tooling still remains > a barrier to my enjoyment of writing D code all time time... I'm fucked! Similar experience here. D has ruined my enjoyment of writing code in any language including D :).

Am 29.01.2014 00:26, schrieb Marco Leise: > Am Tue, 28 Jan 2014 10:28:03 +0000 > schrieb "ed" <growlercab@gmail.com>: > >> On Monday, 27 January 2014 at 11:03:45 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: >> [...] >>> >>> I find GtkD + Glade rather good actually. The problem is that >>> this is >>> not really a good direction for cross platform working since >>> Gtk isn't a >>> widely supported framework. >>> >> >> I'm probably still a bit new to GTK, but when I started on Qt I >> found it easier to pick up. >> >> Ever since I used C++ Builder 4 and VCL I've been searching for a >> RAD GUI tool to match it; I haven't found one yet in C++ or Java. >> >> Some may shudder :D but I really liked the Borland tools and APIs >> back then. >> >> >> Cheers, >> ed > > The Borland tools are great! That's the definition of an IDE. > One program hosts the GUI builder, compiler, linker, debugger, > editor with refactoring support, help system and package > manager. And everything is actually integrated. A double-click > on a button implements a click-handler, publishing a property > of a component class and installing it as part of a package > makes the property available in the GUI builder. > Yep, that is one reason why I never liked C, having learned Turbo Pascal before. Even on MS-DOS, Borland tooling was already great. -- Paulo

January 31, 2014

Re: Which tools do you miss in D?

Posted by Nick Sabalausky
in reply to Manu

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Nick Sabalausky

Posted in reply to Manu

Permalink

On 1/27/2014 3:23 AM, Manu wrote:
>
> I made an interesting observation recently... D has kind of ruined my
> career ;)
> Before I started using D a lot, I found C/C++ quite okay as a language. But
> after extended time using D, I find C/C++ borderline intolerable, and don't
> enjoy writing it at all.
> But the tooling built around C/C++ is pretty good, and as such, I find the
> tooling while working in D borderline intolerable.
>
> So, before, I generally enjoyed my work, and felt generally productive. Now
> days, whenever I do any work in either language, I find one aspect or the
> other borderline intolerable, and I have trouble enjoying spending my time
> programming for long periods before getting frustrated and going and doing
> something else...
>
> I'm quite serious, this is a true realisation of an unconscious behaviour.
> D ruined C/C++ for me, but my expectations of C/C++'s tooling still remains
> a barrier to my enjoyment of writing D code all time time... I'm fucked!
>

I had a similar experience a little over ten years back with C/C++ vs Java. I'd been a [relatively] happy C/C++ user, until I tried Java which destroyed my ability to tolerate C++'s import system and OOP. But Java (this was back around v1.2) came with plenty of its own pains, so I became extremely frustrated with programming in general.

Luckily D fixed all that for me (and to a lesser extent, C#, but that was before I got fed up with C#'s near-total lack of metaprogramming and some other things.) The debugger issues don't really bug [heh] me much because I've been in many situations in the past where I didn't have a debugger available, that I've become very comfortable with printf-style debugging, and usually even prefer it. (Not that a good debugger isn't a fantastic thing to have. It certainly is.)

On Wednesday, 29 January 2014 at 02:08:19 UTC, bearophile wrote: > a code beautifier as indent That. I really miss the Eclipse shortcut that makes all Java code indent the same way, swapping spaces for tabs or tabs for spaces, conforming to some max line length. It requires more than a tool though, someone needs to sit down and decide what things should look like by default. Even if you don't like Sun's style guide, it's still infinitely better than no guide and it can be modified quite easily. I'm glad that at least D has a naming convention. I often wish for more though.

On 1/31/14, "Casper Færgemand\" <shorttail@hotmail.com>"@puremagic.com <"Casper Færgemand\" <shorttail@hotmail.com>"@puremagic.com> wrote: > On Wednesday, 29 January 2014 at 02:08:19 UTC, bearophile wrote: >> a code beautifier as indent > > That. Uncrustify[1] (and a GUI front-end like UniversalIndentGUI[2]) works great with D code, I use it all the time. Note that UniversalIndentGUI typically comes with an outdated version of Uncrustify, so you could simply swap its version of the uncrustify binary with a new version to support the latest C++/D syntax. [1] : http://uncrustify.sourceforge.net/ [2] : http://universalindent.sourceforge.net/

On Monday, 27 January 2014 at 09:29:44 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: > > I'm personally of the opinion that if you're resorting to a debugger, that you really don't understand the code you're writing and how to debug it. Having a debugger to make sense of core files is pretty handy. Also, have you ever tried to sell a language to a team with the caveat that it doesn't have a working debugger of any sort? Finally, it's often not possible to re-run an app with additional logging to figure out a problem. And if you didn't think to log something that turns out to be important for diagnosing some bug, being able to attach to a running process with a debugger is pretty handy. Or dtrace or something. I've been doing printf debugging of low-level issues in D for... gosh, ten years now? I can handle it. Really. But isn't it time we moved into the current century?

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