On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 09:20:36 UTC, Bienlein wrote:
> "You are making a cool project and we'd like to contribute to it, but we don't know and neither feel like studying this silly D".
>
> This is indeed a problem for many newly created languages. Scala has somewhat managed to create its own eco system with Akka, Spark, Spray in a specialized area like concurrent programming and big data. Also because Scala has found some liking in academical circles (e.g. Spark, Scala STM). I don't know how things will look like for Kotlin. Maybe there will be a niche for Android development. For Groovy there is basically only Grails as a killer application.

Giving how D is similar to C/C++ I am surprised that non-familiriarity with D is a big problem.

On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 18:35:10 UTC, FujiBar wrote:
> For those keeping track of every mentioning of D in the media (Hi Andrei!):
>
> The following article about Rust made it to the front page of HN and /r/programming recently: http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0324/
>
> Here is the part mentioning D:
>
> "Well, as you probably remember, it is far not the first attempt to create a "better" C/C++. Take the D language, for instance. It was released in 2001 and is a good language indeed. But there are no vacancies, no decent development tools, no remarkable success stories associated with it. The OpenMW project was initially started in D but then the authors suddenly decided to completely rewrite it into C++. As they confessed, they'd been receiving piles of emails where people would say, "you are making a cool project and we'd like to contribute to it, but we don't know and neither feel like studying this silly D". Wikipedia tells us that there were a lot of other attempts besides D to kill C++ - for example Vala, Cyclone, Limbo, BitC. How many of you have even heard of these languages?"
>
> Walter would probably violently disagree with the "no decent development tools" assessment. But I got to say that people used to Visual Studio and XCode (like myself) not being impressed  by D's 1980s-style bare basic command line tools is not surprising.
>
> I think an IDE, one could call it "DCode" (great name, isn't it?), which integrates all the available tools and provides a modern graphical interface to them would do wonders.
>
> I used to be a command line / text editor / handwritten builds scripts guy myself. But then I was forced to use Visual Studio for a project and now I do not want to go back.

'As they confessed, they'd been receiving
piles of emails where people would say, "you are making a cool
project and we'd like to contribute to it, but we don't know and
neither feel like studying this silly D".'

Yet another reason not to use D. This is a new one to me, though. The common mantra is "D needs a cool project", and then when someone has a cool project, they say "we won't contribute, unless you use a language we all know". How thick is that?!

It's not even worth discussing this attitude. If it was up to people who never want any change, don't want to explore things, don't want to learn anything new, even if they can see its merits right in front of them, we wouldn't have fire for cooking and heating, wheels, soap, penicillin, electricity, fridges, punch cards - not even C++.

On 13/05/15 12:29, Maxim Fomin wrote:

> Giving how D is similar to C/C++ I am surprised that non-familiriarity
> with D is a big problem.

D is a fairly complex language (far too complex, IMHO, relative to its age). Its complexities are both different than C++, and also of a different kind.

I would not say to anyone that they can learn D quickly because they know C++ (not to mention that the average knowledge of C++ is extremely low).

Shachar

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 05:05:54 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
> On 5/12/15 3:57 PM, Max Klyga wrote:
>> On 2015-05-12 20:02:05 +0000, Brian Schott said:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 18:35:10 UTC, FujiBar wrote:
>>>> "But there are no vacancies..."
>>>
>>> There's at least one:
>>> https://emsi.bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=30
>>
>> https://arex.recruiterbox.com/jobs/fk0hjlh/
>
> Should we put together a page of "D job openings" on the wiki? -- Andrei

that does not belong to the wiki. that belongs to the frontpage.

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 09:52:08 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> On 13/05/15 12:29, Maxim Fomin wrote:
>
>> Giving how D is similar to C/C++ I am surprised that non-familiriarity
>> with D is a big problem.
>
> D is a fairly complex language (far too complex, IMHO, relative to its age). Its complexities are both different than C++, and also of a different kind.
>
> I would not say to anyone that they can learn D quickly because they know C++ (not to mention that the average knowledge of C++ is extremely low).
>
> Shachar

I find it easy to spot D code written by a C++ or Java developer by the heavy overuse of OO-based design, little to no range based code/afraid of being functional, and in the case of Java - heavy abuse of the GC.

On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 18:51:17 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 18:35:10 UTC, FujiBar wrote:
>> For those keeping track of every mentioning of D in the media (Hi Andrei!):
>>
>> The following article about Rust made it to the front page of HN and /r/programming recently: http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0324/
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9531822
> http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/35pn5a/criticizing_the_rust_language_and_why_cc_will/
>
> As has been pointed out above, this is written by ... a company that sells static C++ analyzers for a living. D and Rust's goal is to put them out of business... so, naturally, there's some conflict of interest.

As a tiny nitpick - the article has, in fact, been written by this guy:
http://eax.me/cpp-will-never-die/

who, AFAIK, is not related to Program Verification Systems.

-dmitri.

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 10:34:46 UTC, Mengu wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 05:05:54 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
> wrote:
>> On 5/12/15 3:57 PM, Max Klyga wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-12 20:02:05 +0000, Brian Schott said:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 18:35:10 UTC, FujiBar wrote:
>>>>> "But there are no vacancies..."
>>>>
>>>> There's at least one:
>>>> https://emsi.bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=30
>>>
>>> https://arex.recruiterbox.com/jobs/fk0hjlh/
>>
>> Should we put together a page of "D job openings" on the wiki? -- Andrei
>
> that does not belong to the wiki. that belongs to the frontpage.

Yep, I agree.
Right below the "Active Discussions" or "Tweets" widgets.

On 5/13/2015 12:04 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> I saved the git tag in which this happens and will try to isolate.

Thank you. This is very important.

On 5/13/15 3:34 AM, Mengu wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 05:05:54 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
> wrote:
>> On 5/12/15 3:57 PM, Max Klyga wrote:
>>> On 2015-05-12 20:02:05 +0000, Brian Schott said:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 18:35:10 UTC, FujiBar wrote:
>>>>> "But there are no vacancies..."
>>>>
>>>> There's at least one:
>>>> https://emsi.bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=30
>>>
>>> https://arex.recruiterbox.com/jobs/fk0hjlh/
>>
>> Should we put together a page of "D job openings" on the wiki? -- Andrei
>
> that does not belong to the wiki. that belongs to the frontpage.

It should be easy to update by the community, so a wiki might be a good start. So I saw three links, any others? -- Andrei

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 15:24:02 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> It should be easy to update by the community, so a wiki might be a good start. So I saw three links, any others? -- Andrei

If it's visible on the front page, more links should be submitted quickly.

So do we want a front page widget that's hosted on the wiki?