November 26
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 15:59:27 UTC, aliak wrote:
> a general tendency towards specific emotional states. And red happens to tend towards danger (among other things). Evolutionarily, red is something you stay away from in nature.

Nah, ripe fruits tend to be red in order to be eaten, so that plants can spread their seeds.

Cheers!

November 26
On 26.11.19 10:11, S.G wrote:
> But don't fix bugs just for the love of the D programming language.

I have fixed some bugs in `static foreach` interactions with features that I don't use. If there is a `static foreach`-related problem and you bring it to my attention, it is pretty likely that I will look into it.
November 26
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 13:28:17 UTC, berni44 wrote:
> Again: People are different. If you may make people do the work for stars next to the name, you do not need to found the 100 bucks.

What kind of people are to even think that this would work...
You want 16 y.o neebies to do the work and give them candies ?
Common common man. I just want to say

COMMON.


November 26
On Monday, 25 November 2019 at 20:03:27 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
>
> At this point, I don't think the problem is identifying work that needs to be done, but rather identifying ways to get it done.
>
> You should, of course, file bug reports as appropriate, but that's not enough. Sticking with cars, what we have here is people seeing someone that's broke in a car with no gas by the side of the road. Telling him that he needs to put gas in to get going isn't going to accomplish much - he already knows that's why the car died, and he knows how to fix it. The only thing that will help is giving him money to buy gas, giving him a container of gas, or giving him a way to earn money needed to buy gas.
>
> There are many comparisons with the experience provided by Go and Rust. Those languages had tremendous financial resources behind them. The greatest assistance you can give to D at this point is to come up with ideas to obtain more resources or otherwise come up with a plan to get the problems fixed. This has been discussed to death, but that doesn't accomplish anything. There is nobody that's going to read about the problems and start fixing them.

I think often it's less about financial resources than a coordination problem.

Lots of people probably wouldn't mind fixing bugs or improving documentation to earn some extra money and maybe some people or companies would be willing to support the ecosystem through funding but unless somebody takes it upon themselves to organise a way to make it happen then it won't.

It might be as simple as setting up a page where people can indicate their willingness to fix bugs and send email address along with the sort of daily rate they would need.  Then it's much easier to ask for support if someone will oversee that process.  You could allow people to channel money to bugs they care about provided they channel some to community bug fixing needs.

The difference between a bug bounty I guess is they might be a bit too passive for our current stage of development.

The barrier to getting Symmetry Autumn of Code started was much more about organisational questions than the dollar cost itself.

November 27
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 13:41:52 UTC, RazvanN wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 09:11:33 UTC, S.G wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 05:05:09 UTC, Jab wrote:
>>> On Monday, 25 November 2019 at 16:53:43 UTC, berni44 wrote:
>>>> a) Remove bugs
>>>
>>>
>>> I feel this gets brought up a bit, how pull requests sit idle for years along with bug reports. People working on D work on whatever they want, fixing bugs and handling pull requests are just chores that no one wants to do.
>>
>> Fixing D bugs is a one way process so I don't even recommend doing this seriously, e.g on a daily basis, several hours per days. This will inexorably leads to frustration. Fix bugs if at work your company needs some particular fixes, fix bugs if you need some fixes for your own side-projects, fix bugs if this is required for your studies. But don't fix bugs just for the love of the D programming language.
>
> I have fixed 150+ bugs and closed another 200+ (invalid or fixed) in the compiler and I can say that this is a great way to understand the innards of the software.

This is actually interesting to compare ourselve because I've fixed pretty much the same amount. You match to the definition of what I call the student case. I match more to what I had described as the guy who should not have done anything.
November 27
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 14:38:33 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> Anyway, the original name for D was Mars, so red makes sense for that reason alone. I personally prefer logos that retain the history.

Just for clearification: I do not want to ban red completely from the website. For me it feels just to be a little bit too much of red.

Meanwhile I played arround a little bit with the style files and I think, making the links blue (#3931B0) instead of red would allready be quite an improvement in the sense of what I mean.
November 27
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 at 13:39:57 UTC, berni44 wrote:
> Just for clearification: I do not want to ban red completely from the website. For me it feels just to be a little bit too much of red.

Yes, sure.  Red draws attention and it can be a bit tiresome with many red links.

I thought it was a bit fun that you focused on big things (bugs) and then ended with a focus on something small (colours) in the same post. :-)  Like: "hey, if we can't get these bugs fixed can we at least get a different colour on the website?"

(I know you didn't say that, but it could be construed that way :-)


November 27
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 at 13:48:10 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> I thought it was a bit fun that you focused on big things (bugs) and then ended with a focus on something small (colours) in the same post. :-)  Like: "hey, if we can't get these bugs fixed can we at least get a different colour on the website?"

I was a bit amused myself when I read the whole thing three days after I wrote it. In the beginning I complain about people talking about the colour of the car and later it's me who talks about colour... ;-)

November 27
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 at 15:41:03 UTC, berni44 wrote:
> I was a bit amused myself when I read the whole thing three days after I wrote it. In the beginning I complain about people talking about the colour of the car and later it's me who talks about colour... ;-)

I think we all experience that from time to time. I've certainly expressed surprise many times when I see that car dealers offers 10 different shades of gray, black, white and 2 shades of dark blue and no other colours... I can't belive that everybody want so boring looking cars!

Anyway, all programmers can relate to the frustration the emerge after looking for a bug in ones own code only to discover that the bug is somewhere else...
November 27
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 22:53:49 UTC, Laeeth isharc wrote:

> I think often it's less about financial resources than a coordination problem.

That's a good point. And as has been said before, once you have some money on the line, it forces you to get things in order. One problem of a volunteer system is that there's no incentive to make it work, even when money is not itself the issue.

> Lots of people probably wouldn't mind fixing bugs or improving documentation to earn some extra money and maybe some people or companies would be willing to support the ecosystem through funding but unless somebody takes it upon themselves to organise a way to make it happen then it won't.
>
> It might be as simple as setting up a page where people can indicate their willingness to fix bugs and send email address along with the sort of daily rate they would need.  Then it's much easier to ask for support if someone will oversee that process.  You could allow people to channel money to bugs they care about provided they channel some to community bug fixing needs.

I like that idea. College students would be prime candidates for this but they might avoid it because they wouldn't know what their rate should be. It might have to be stated as $X/day or a negotiated rate if that isn't enough.

I think there's room for reducing the cost of getting involved with development/writing documentation. I eventually gave up because there's so much overhead associated with getting everything set up and dealing with Git and all that. I wouldn't even accept money if it were offered, and others with high salaries are probably in the same boat, but I don't want to spend my limited time dealing with overhead rather than doing work that has value.

Sometimes it's unclear who's even in charge. Dub, for instance. I wish you could find the email address of the decision maker for a particular issue on the website.

> The barrier to getting Symmetry Autumn of Code started was much more about organisational questions than the dollar cost itself.

We're lucky to have that barrier out of the way. It's been a big boost for the language, and will become bigger as time goes on - every improvement has an effect for many years.
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