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We are forking D
Jan 02
GrimMaple
Jan 02
Daniel N
Jan 02
ryuukk_
Jan 02
IGotD-
Jan 02
matheus
Jan 02
GrimMaple
Jan 02
IGotD-
Jan 02
GrimMaple
Jan 02
IGotD-
Jan 02
mw
Jan 09
Martyn
Jan 09
bomat
Jan 11
cc
Jan 09
Martyn
Jan 09
tony
Jan 02
monkyyy
Jan 02
victoroak
Jan 03
d007
Jan 03
user
Jan 12
Antonio
Jan 02
Luna
Jan 02
Daniel N
Jan 03
user
Jan 03
Martyn
Jan 03
JN
Jan 03
matheus
Jan 03
Martyn
Jan 03
IGotD-
Jan 03
GrimMaple
Jan 04
Don Allen
Jan 07
bomat
Jan 08
Dukc
Jan 07
GrimMaple
Jan 08
Don Allen
Jan 07
monkyyy
Jan 07
Don Allen
Jan 07
monkyyy
Jan 07
bomat
Jan 07
Don Allen
Jan 07
bomat
Jan 08
bomat
Jan 03
Hors
Jan 04
i_meva
Jan 04
Hors
Jan 04
Martyn
Jan 04
Abdulhaq
Jan 04
IGotD-
Jan 04
Etienne
Jan 05
matheus
Jan 06
matheus
Jan 06
Mengu
Jan 06
IGotD-
Jan 07
brianush1
Jan 08
DrDread
Jan 09
razyk
Jan 07
matheus
Jan 06
matheus
Jan 06
Meta
Jan 09
whitebyte
Jan 09
BlueBeach
Jan 09
BlueBeach
Jan 09
matheus
Jan 09
BlueBeach
Jan 09
user1234
Jan 10
Martyn
Jan 09
Abdulhaq
Jan 09
jmh530
Jan 10
BlueBeach
Jan 10
bachmeier
Jan 09
whitebyte
Jan 10
bachmeier
Jan 10
Sergey
Jan 10
M. M.
Jan 10
matheus
Jan 10
Martyn
Jan 10
zjh
Jan 11
zjh
Jan 10
aberba
Jan 10
GrimMaple
Jan 10
GrimMaple
Jan 09
GrimMaple
Jan 09
BlueBeach
Jan 09
GrimMaple
Jan 10
zjh
Jan 10
zjh
Jan 10
zjh
Jan 10
zjh
Jan 10
aberba
Jan 11
a11e99z
Jan 11
a11e99z
Jan 12
zjh
Jan 12
zjh
Jan 12
zjh
Jan 11
ryuukk_
Jan 12
Hors
Jan 14
evilrat
Jan 10
karitoy
Jan 09
bomat
Jan 21
Danilo
Jan 21
Danilo
Jan 21
claptrap
Jan 21
matheus
Jan 19
cc
Jan 19
Dom DiSc
January 02
Gravatar of GrimMaplePosted by GrimMapleReply
GrimMaple
Gravatar of GrimMaple


Reply

Hello everyone!

Growing greatly dissatisfied with how things are in the D Programming Language, we decided it is time to fork it.
We want to change the way decisions are made, giving both more freedom to change, and more speed to decision making. We want the process of contribution to be as open-ended as possible, and not having unnecessary blockage to contributions. We also want the language to allow for faster software development. The way this is going to be achieved is still not finalized, but that is the goal.
One of the ways to achive our goal is to have core focuses of the language. Such focuses are:

  • Embracing the GC and improving upon it, disregarding betterC and nogc in the process
  • Concentrating on the code being @safe by default
  • Revizing & rewriting the standard library, making std.v2
  • Improving druntime and porting it to other platforms, like wasm
  • Encouraging writing code in D, not sticking up with C
  • Improving toolchain

The following stuff will be forked:

  • dmd
  • ldc
  • phobos
  • druntime

As hard as it is to say this, unfortunate code breaking changese are going to be made. But only if they help achieve the goals listed above.

The forking process is still in progress, and there isn't much done per se. We are discussing the future of the fork and what we want from it, it might be a little crazy at first. But if you wish to help out, bring your changes in, or just look around, please join our Discord server to discuss: https://discord.gg/tfT9MjA69u . Temporary website: https://dpldocs.info/opend/contribute.html

Thank you, and good luck.

January 02
Gravatar of Daniel NPosted by Daniel N
in reply to GrimMaple		Reply
Daniel N
Gravatar of Daniel N
Posted in reply to GrimMaple


Reply

On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 17:55:56 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

Hello everyone!

Thank you, and good luck.

Good luck, please use a different name for your module, not std.v2 as that should be reserved for the original dlang.

January 02
Gravatar of ryuukk_Posted by ryuukk_
in reply to GrimMaple		Reply
ryuukk_
Gravatar of ryuukk_
Posted in reply to GrimMaple


Reply

Embracing GC only sets yourself for failure

The best approach is to be pragmatic and embrace APIs around an allocator, so you can have the default allocation strategy be a GC without hurting projects that require fine tuning the allocation strategy (games, drivers, anything realtime)

type inference and tuple, that's very nice, overall the roadmap is interesting and promising, missing tagged union and allocator driven API and i would root for you

i'd make -i the default as well

but.. who is 'we'?

January 02
Gravatar of IGotD-Posted by IGotD-
in reply to GrimMaple		Reply
IGotD-
Gravatar of IGotD-
Posted in reply to GrimMaple


Reply

On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 17:55:56 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

Hello everyone!

Growing greatly dissatisfied with how things are in the D Programming Language, we decided it is time to fork it......

...

Thank you, and good luck.

That's good news but who are "we" in this case?

The name OpenD is ok, I was thinking to naming it "D professional" but that's not so important.

This is a decision that is long overdue and I am happy that it is finally happening. It is also very unfortunate but there is simply no other way in order to progress. The important thing is that you get productive people on board who wants to contribute.

Also is there a new forum that we can use in order to discuss things? I'm talking about a forum and not a chat group.

January 02
Gravatar of H. S. TeohPosted by H. S. Teoh
in reply to IGotD-		Reply
H. S. Teoh
Gravatar of H. S. Teoh
Posted in reply to IGotD-


Reply
On Tue, Jan 02, 2024 at 06:54:17PM +0000, IGotD- via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 17:55:56 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:
> > Hello everyone!
> > 
> > Growing greatly dissatisfied with how things are in the D Programming Language, we decided it is time to fork it......
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > Thank you, and good luck.
> 
> That's good news but who are "we" in this case?

>From the looks of it, GrimMaple and Adam Ruppe.  Don't know who else.
Maybe Jonathan Marler?  Some openness(!) on this front would be
appreciated.


> The name OpenD is ok, I was thinking to naming it "D professional" but that's not so important.

I actually thing Boulder (or boulDer) would be a much better name than
OpenD.  Adam would understand why. ;-)


> This is a decision that is long overdue and I am happy that it is finally happening. It is also very unfortunate but there is simply no other way in order to progress. The important thing is that you get productive people on board who wants to contribute.

If there's a way to get Kenji Hara back, then there'll be a fighting chance that this will actually succeed. Maybe also Bearophile, but may be too late by now.


> Also is there a new forum that we can use in order to discuss things? I'm talking about a forum and not a chat group.

Yeah, that would be much preferred. I'm not interested in joining discord just for this. Same reason why I'll never sign up for FB.


T

-- 
Those who don't understand D are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Daniel N
January 02
Gravatar of matheusPosted by matheus
in reply to IGotD-		Reply
matheus
Gravatar of matheus
Posted in reply to IGotD-


Reply
On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 18:54:17 UTC, IGotD- wrote:
> ...
> The name OpenD is ok, I was thinking to naming it "D professional" but that's not so important.
> ...

D++ ?

If I'm not wrong, there was a topic once about renaming D to something different, there was a bunch of nice choices there.

I couldn't find that topic, but there was this one: https://forum.dlang.org/thread/hgyujiwbqffzjxudbofc@forum.dlang.org

In any case I wish you luck and I hope to see SI feature soon,

Matheus.
January 02
Gravatar of monkyyyPosted by monkyyy
in reply to GrimMaple		Reply
monkyyy
Gravatar of monkyyy
Posted in reply to GrimMaple


Reply

On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 17:55:56 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

One of the ways to achive our goal is to have core focuses of the language. Such focuses are:

  • Embracing the GC and improving upon it, disregarding betterC

Will you be breaking betterc before wasm is merged?

>

The following stuff will be forked:
dmd
ldc

why both?

>

we

Got a list of names?

January 02
Gravatar of victoroakPosted by victoroak
in reply to GrimMaple		Reply
victoroak
Gravatar of victoroak
Posted in reply to GrimMaple


Reply

On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 17:55:56 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

Hello everyone!

Growing greatly dissatisfied with how things are in the D Programming Language, we decided it is time to fork it.
We want to change the way decisions are made, giving both more freedom to change, and more speed to decision making. We want the process of contribution to be as open-ended as possible, and not having unnecessary blockage to contributions. We also want the language to allow for faster software development. The way this is going to be achieved is still not finalized, but that is the goal.
One of the ways to achive our goal is to have core focuses of the language. Such focuses are:

  • Embracing the GC and improving upon it, disregarding betterC and nogc in the process
  • Concentrating on the code being @safe by default
  • Revizing & rewriting the standard library, making std.v2
  • Improving druntime and porting it to other platforms, like wasm
  • Encouraging writing code in D, not sticking up with C
  • Improving toolchain

The following stuff will be forked:

  • dmd
  • ldc
  • phobos
  • druntime

As hard as it is to say this, unfortunate code breaking changese are going to be made. But only if they help achieve the goals listed above.

The forking process is still in progress, and there isn't much done per se. We are discussing the future of the fork and what we want from it, it might be a little crazy at first. But if you wish to help out, bring your changes in, or just look around, please join our Discord server to discuss: https://discord.gg/tfT9MjA69u . Temporary website: https://dpldocs.info/opend/contribute.html

Thank you, and good luck.

Good luck with this. I do not agree with every goal of the project but it's nice to see the community stepping up and fixing things. Maybe issue 5710 might be merged again or fixed in another way. It would be great to see async/await or some kind of stackless resumable function implemented too.

I might enter the discord later to see more about the project.

January 02
Gravatar of ProfunctorPosted by Profunctor
in reply to GrimMaple		Reply
Profunctor
Gravatar of Profunctor
Posted in reply to GrimMaple


Reply

On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 17:55:56 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>
  • Embracing the GC and improving upon it, disregarding betterC and nogc in the process

This alone is worth it. I pray for your success in these endeavors.

January 02
Gravatar of ProfunctorPosted by Profunctor
in reply to IGotD-		Reply
Profunctor
Gravatar of Profunctor
Posted in reply to IGotD-


Reply

On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 at 18:54:17 UTC, IGotD- wrote:

>

Also is there a new forum that we can use in order to discuss things? I'm talking about a forum and not a chat group.

I too am interested in this.

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