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August 03, 2012
Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
Hi all,

im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.

I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is "ok" for the client
side ?

Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders) so
its not really a problem if i lose some fps.

Thanks and sorry for my bad english(im french).
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
Robert:

> im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
>
> I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
> server in c#, i want to know if D language is "ok" for the 
> client side ?
>
> Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders) 
> so
> its not really a problem if i lose some fps.
>
> Thanks and sorry for my bad english(im french).

I think D today is enough to create a small game like that.
But D and its standard library are in development still, so 
probably you will need to fix small things every D release, for 
some years. Are you able and willing to do this?

Bye,
bearophile
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
On 8/3/2012 9:22 AM, Robert wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
>
> I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
> server in c#, i want to know if D language is "ok" for the client
> side ?
>
> Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders) so
> its not really a problem if i lose some fps.
>
> Thanks and sorry for my bad english(im french).

Yes, it is if you are only targeting the big 3 platforms (Win, Linux, 
Mac). If you need mobile, we aren't quite there yet. There are several 
OpenGL-based D game projects on github right now.
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 02:16:22 UTC, bearophile wrote:
> I think D today is enough to create a small game like that.
> But D and its standard library are in development still, so 
> probably you will need to fix small things every D release, for 
> some years. Are you able and willing to do this?
>
> Bye,
> bearophile

Every release is slightly exaggerating it. I can think of a few 
major breaking changes, but breaking changes are less frequent 
now IMO. As they should be. Pretty much no D code from a year ago 
will compile today. Definitely a discouraging thing, especially 
if you just try to use someone else's library.
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 03:13:06 UTC, Kapps wrote:
> On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 02:16:22 UTC, bearophile wrote:
>> I think D today is enough to create a small game like that.
>> But D and its standard library are in development still, so 
>> probably you will need to fix small things every D release, 
>> for some years. Are you able and willing to do this?
>>
>> Bye,
>> bearophile
>
> Every release is slightly exaggerating it. I can think of a few 
> major breaking changes, but breaking changes are less frequent 
> now IMO. As they should be. Pretty much no D code from a year 
> ago will compile today. Definitely a discouraging thing, 
> especially if you just try to use someone else's library.

Every change is a potentially breaking change, even if all the 
change does is fix a bug (your code could rely on the bug). This 
happens to me quite a lot with subtle things. Forever, 2.060 
revealed that I had overloaded the same function twice with the 
same arguments and same template constraints. Up till 2.060 it 
wasn't flagged as an error and worked fine. Yeah, it's my fault 
entirely, but it's something I had to fix.

I can't remember upgrading my DMD without having to change 
*something*, and my project is only about 10kloc, so it's not 
big, and I don't think bearophile is exaggerating at all.


To answer the original question: yes, D is more than capable of 
writing games for the major desktop platforms right now, even if 
things are a little unstable at the moment.

One thing I will say to you though is that you'll have to avoid 
allocations during runtime if you want smooth gameplay as the GC 
is quite slow, but you should be doing that in any language.
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 00:22:51 UTC, Robert wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
>
> I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
> server in c#, i want to know if D language is "ok" for the 
> client
> side ?
>
> Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders) 
> so
> its not really a problem if i lose some fps.
>
> Thanks and sorry for my bad english(im french).

I would recommend D only for small hobby projects. Everything 
else is out of scope. I'm constantly running in problems both 
with DMD and with phobos, especially with it's containers and 
algorithms. If you need something done, you are wrong here. At 
least for now.
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
2012/8/3 Tobias Pankrath <tobias@pankrath.net>:
> On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 00:22:51 UTC, Robert wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
>>
>> I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
>> server in c#, i want to know if D language is "ok" for the client
>> side ?

I'll partially repeat what others said.

You might want to stay with one library/compiler version. Every year
or so, while updating it to newer one, you'd have to do fixes + major
tests again.
You have to be aware about not doing many allocations/dealocations,
but that was easy at least for me.
You might consider not using more complicated language constructs,
most bugs are here.
You have  to be prepared for spotting and actually knowing some
compiler bugs (additionally to possible yours).

Besides of the downsides it will be really enjoyable to write your
project in D and your productivity will gain.
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
On 2012-08-03 09:24, Tobias Pankrath wrote:

> I would recommend D only for small hobby projects. Everything else is
> out of scope. I'm constantly running in problems both with DMD and with
> phobos, especially with it's containers and algorithms. If you need
> something done, you are wrong here. At least for now.

There's always the option to stay at a given release. Another option 
would be to use D1 and Tango if one wants stability. Not much is 
changing there.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 09:05:11 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2012-08-03 09:24, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
>
>> I would recommend D only for small hobby projects. Everything 
>> else is
>> out of scope. I'm constantly running in problems both with DMD 
>> and with
>> phobos, especially with it's containers and algorithms. If you 
>> need
>> something done, you are wrong here. At least for now.
>
> There's always the option to stay at a given release. Another 
> option would be to use D1 and Tango if one wants stability. Not 
> much is changing there.

I don't mind, if my code breaks due language improvement. But I 
do mind if the compiler spills out wrong code or dies or doesn't 
work under a specific combination of flags or issues errors about 
some label not defined when I  introduce some invariant in my 
class.

And I'm using git-head because it resolves some of these bugs. 
Naturally you get not only fixes but new ones, too.
August 03, 2012
Re: Is D Language mature for MMORPG Client ?
Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:
> On 2012-08-03 09:24, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
> There's always the option to stay at a given release. Another option 
> would be to use D1 and Tango if one wants stability. Not much is 
> changing there.

From dlang.org: 
   please note: D1 will be discontinued effective December 31, 2012


This doesn't mean that D1 will stop working. It just becomes
"more stable" :-}
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