On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:25:58 -0800, Andy Friesen wrote:

>> 
>>>there's no sense in writing my own GTK+ wrapper if that's exactly what DUI already is.  (if I can get the durned thing to compile right :)
>> 
>> What's the problem?
> 
> Currently, it's:
> 
> src\ddi\WindowG.d: class WindowG forward reference of base class
Drawable

are you using dui_00.08_84b.zip

JCC was having the same problem but compiled OK
with dui_00.08_84b.zip (windows XP home)
I guess your talking about windows.
(if dui_00.08_84.zip was a bad upload the 'b' just
corrects the upload)

> 
>> 
>> If you do a common API for GTK and for native windows there is much sence on it. But that's our new project, right?
>> 
> 
> I just mean that DUI is easier to use than pure GTK+. (C sucks)

indeed :)

> 
>> 
>>>Unless there are scary platform issues I'm not aware of, the whole toolkit seems to be a pretty simple library.  There must be something I'm not taking into account here, as so much effort has gone into these things.
>> 
>> I don't understand what you mean.
>> 
> 
> Just that it's been pretty easy to work out thus far.  There has to be some obscenely scary part of all this that I haven't seen yet.

I don't like the tree and table view (GTKTreeView for both),
I think java swing's TreeModel and TableModel are better,
but java is a full OO model. GTK is OO implemented in C
which is kinda of awkward.
(I'm not complaining about the intergration of table and tree that works
fine)

> 
>> 
>> I did try to use the D facility of defining more than one public class on one module. It's a bad idea. give it up.
>> 
> 
> heheh.  I try to, because it's a nice way to organize things.  But I have seen the problem with interdependant classes in separate modules causing DMD to cry.

I thing I explain that on a past post.
basically put the imports inside the class body definition
(except super and interfaces obviouslly)
http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D/20837

  In dfbth's case, it was Control and
> CompositeControl that caused the explosion.  They're both in control.d now for this reason.
> 
>   -- andy

Oops, my bad.  The C code is just to set up JNI on the local OS.  The real work is in the Java.  I took a look at that, and it would be a challenge to port to D, but the consistent API across platforms would be well worth it.

I think Ant's work on DUI is great, but for the app I'm working on, I don't want to have to distribute GTK+ libraries on Win32.  I like the SWT methodology of 'use native widgets where possible, implement others'.

How cool would it be to make a window on all platforms in D with the following (it's Java, but close to D):

/*
 * Copyright (c) 2000, 2003 IBM Corp.  All rights reserved.
 * This file is made available under the terms of the Common Public License v1.0
 * which accompanies this distribution, and is available at
 * http://www.eclipse.org/legal/cpl-v10.html
 */

/*
 * example snippet: Hello World
 *
 * For a list of all SWT example snippets see
 * http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/%7Echeckout%7E/platform-swt-home/dev.html#snippets
 */
import org.eclipse.swt.widgets.*;

public class Main {

   public static void main (String [] args) {
	Display display = new Display ();
	Shell shell = new Shell(display);
	shell.open ();
	while (!shell.isDisposed ()) {
		if (!display.readAndDispatch ()) display.sleep ();
	}
	display.dispose ();
   }
}




Brad Anderson wrote:
> I took a look at SWT and found IBM's source for Win32.  See the attached screenshot.
> 
> The other folders are all for Java and its role in Eclipse, but if we could rewrite the SWT core for each platform :( and call it with consistent methods/functions, would we have reproduced a native GUI library for D?  I'm not saying it would be easy, due to the 704K total source file size, but if we could bang out Win32 and Linux, it would be a good start.  And efforts in the future would have a framework to go from.
> 
> I guess you could do the same thing with wxWindows, but from Ant's list, eclipse SWT looks like the best compromise for speed and comprehensiveness.
> 
> BA
> 

John Reimer wrote:
> OK, scratch that.  Now I see there are Lua, Perl, and Javascript versions.  It
> seems mostly interpreted languages can interface with wxWindows.

I heard it's through SWIG already.

-eye

> 
> 3, 2, 1, go!
> (just can't give it all my free time)

Good, good. So how do you want to begin. Do you want to make a preliminary discussion forum somewhere? Or do you just want maintain contact by email? We need to start at least discussing our approach to the project.

> 
> DUI's work is just boring.
> the most interesting thing on DUI is to find out how to make the combo
> box work (it's incomplete and crashes on the windows version). Also if
> you're interested on OpenGL the windows version needs work but it sould
> be only debuging.

Oh, I don't necessarily need the most "interesting" coding task.  Just need to get my feet wet.  I may take a peek at the above :).

> If you like leds help is welcomed.
> leds is more interesting, actually there are some interesting problems
> still looking for a solution.
> I think leds is going to be much better then I antecipated.

Leds looks to be a worthy project.  I'll see if I can get familiar with it and lend a hand here and there.

> If we like the wxWindows API the OpenGL could be just another implementation. (to take full advange of it some extensions would be created) isn't JA that is interested on that (sorry bad with names here, for a long time I thought Carlos Santander and Charles Sanders were the same person!)

(:-D. True, another implementation is entirely possible. We can certainly keep it in mind.

> I think a native look and feel for windows is important for X11 (linux)
> it just needs to be good.
> 
> Ant

I completely agree with this.  Native widgets should be the first go.

Let's keep looking into this.  Unfortunately, I've come down with a nasty flu.  I'm home from work...but feeling pretty crappy.  Keep that in mind if I'm slow to interact here over the next few days :-(.

Later,

John

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:08:02 -0800, John Reimer wrote:

> 
>> 
>> 3, 2, 1, go!
>> (just can't give it all my free time)
> 
> Good, good. So how do you want to begin. Do you want to make a preliminary discussion forum somewhere?

for sure. but I think you could keep it here a little longer.
some more people might be interested (at least to make suggestions).
For more detailed discussion we get somewhere else to go.
Before commit to something we should post here the pros and cons
of our decision and listen to more ideas.

> Or do you just want maintain contact by email?

That's not going to be enough. I hope we are at least 4.
And we want any discussion to be public so that anybody
can join in at anytime.

> Leds looks to be a worthy project.  I'll see if I can get familiar with it and lend a hand here and there.

I hope to get the cvs for leds on sourceforge in 2 or 3 days.
Email me on that (antoniorm@sourceforge.net)
if you see something you like or to ask anything.

But if you prefer to collect information on SWT and wxWindows is also a good idea.

Ant

Ant <Ant_member@pathlink.com> schreef:

>> That's the new port for all platforms that implements it's own widget sets instead of calling OS dependent ones.
> 
> Interesting (roughly and roughly chronological):
> java AWT - use only common native widgets
> java swing - don't use native widget, implements "full" set of widgets
> eclise SWT - use native widgets where possible, implement others
> wxWindows - use native widgets
> wxWindowsUniversal - don't use native widgets.
> 
> Seems people still doesn't know what's more important,
> give the user a consistent look and feel on a specific platform or
> give the same application the same look and feel accross different
> platforms.
> 
> (Definitivly the user sould have a consistent look and feel in one platform. Or maybe that's a view of the past?)

wxUniversal is for platforms that have no native widget set or that have no (complete) port (yet) for the native widget set.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

In article <Xns947849B79C185JanC@213.119.4.35>, JanC says...
>
>
>wxUniversal is for platforms that have no native widget set or that have no (complete) port (yet) for the native widget set.
>
That makes sense.

Ant

"Ant" <Ant_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:buh34c$2168$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <bucjga$q2n$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John Reimer says...
> >
> >>can we just create the entire class hierarchy,
> >>using swig. then we just "fill in the blanks".
> >
> >You sure can try!
>
> Couldn't even get to first base...
>
> >
> >That's the new port for all platforms that implements it's own widget
sets
> >instead of calling OS dependent ones.
>
> Interesting (roughly and roughly chronological):
> java AWT - use only common native widgets
> java swing - don't use native widget, implements "full" set of widgets
> eclise SWT - use native widgets where possible, implement others
> wxWindows - use native widgets
> wxWindowsUniversal - don't use native widgets.
>
> Seems people still doesn't know what's more important,
> give the user a consistent look and feel on a specific platform or
> give the same application the same look and feel accross different
> platforms.

Isn't it obvious?

Users want the same look and feel on a single platform. Developers want the same look and feel for a single app between different platforms.

Which one's going to result in the most successful software?

> Good, good. So how do you want to begin. Do you want to make a preliminary discussion forum somewhere? Or do you just want maintain contact by email? We need to start at least discussing our approach to the project.

I think d.gui deserves to be a newsgroup in its own right. Walter?

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:53:45 +1100, Matthew wrote:

>> Good, good. So how do you want to begin. Do you want to make a preliminary discussion forum somewhere? Or do you just want maintain contact by email? We need to start at least discussing our approach to the project.
> 
> I think d.gui deserves to be a newsgroup in its own right. Walter?

That would be nice.

But we also need a repository for the code
and a version control system.

The first place I can think is sourceforge.net
but (probably) there are other options.

Ant

It's the "Lady Hawk" sindrome. You remember?
that movie with Michelle Pfiffer and that Dutch(?) guy?
she is a hawk by day he is a wolf by night.
they never meet as humans.
You start posting now I can't keep my eyes open...
dimming donw the monitor bright, dimming down the monitor,
dimming down, dimming... zzzzzzzzzzzzz