Hi

Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.

D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty much (dare I say it) useless.

When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:34:08 +0000 (UTC), imr1984 wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
> 
> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty much (dare I say it) useless.
> 
> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.

What am I doing wrong? I have never needed an interactive debugger with D.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
29/05/2005 9:16:55 PM

Derek Parnell wrote:

> On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:34:08 +0000 (UTC), imr1984 wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>> 
>> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty much (dare I say it) useless.
>> 
>> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? I have never needed an interactive debugger with D.
> 

You're just to damn structured when writing code ;)

Lars Ivar Igesund

In article <15l7g6p9fwn6f.3wosvc27mgzn.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>
>On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:34:08 +0000 (UTC), imr1984 wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> 
>> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>> 
>> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares?

I care.

As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty
>> much (dare I say it) useless.

You are wrong. It is totaly useful. I am doing this app (http://www.lessequal.com/akide) and last few days I'm dealin with stuff like shell extensions (this COM is nonsense) and htmlhelp which I am doing in C++. I forgot what pain was the work with char*-s and realloc... D strings/arrays is breeze. And not only the arrays... D is The language for me and I belive many other people from this community...

>> 
>> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
>
>What am I doing wrong? I have never needed an interactive debugger with D.
>

Well I needed one. It could save me a lot of time and headaches... But I'm doing fine without it...

"imr1984" <imr1984_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d7c5r0$2b7f$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not
> being
> able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>
> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing
> more. But
> frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is
> pretty
> much (dare I say it) useless.
>
> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.

I would love to have proper debugging info, but unless we get a proper IDE/debugger, it won't be of much use.  I use VC++ to step through my D progs and look at some variables (basic types work fine).  This of course can't be extended to look at some parts of D as it's hard-coded to see C++ stuff (like classes).  I suppose I could use yet _another_ command-line utility (sometimes using D feels like I've stepped back in time..) like gdb, but I'm really not up to using another tool.

In the meantime, I'm happy.  It might take me a little longer to debug stuff, but for the most part, my code is perfect so I don't need it ;) jk. I've gotten pretty quick with printlining/logging, and very rarely do I need stepthru, and if I do, I can usually do it in VC++.

imr1984 wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being
> able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
> 
> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But
> frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty
> much (dare I say it) useless.
> 
> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
> 
> 
> 

I suspect it will be a priority once D 1.0 is out, because it might be hard to produce correct debug info when you add/remove features from the language. In the mean time, get friendly with unit tests, asserts, contracts, and writef ;)

> I suspect it will be a priority once D 1.0 is out, because it might be hard to produce correct debug info when you add/remove features from the language. In the mean time, get friendly with unit tests, asserts, contracts, and writef ;)

Hmm good point , but D definetly needs 100% debug info.  And since D is a new language , with features found nowhere else , a debug API would be super awesome also.


"clayasaurus" <clayasaurus@gmail.com> wrote in message news:d7cr8g$2rsq$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> imr1984 wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider
not being
> > able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
> >
> > D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing
more. But
> > frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is
pretty
> > much (dare I say it) useless.
> >
> > When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I suspect it will be a priority once D 1.0 is out, because it might be hard to produce correct debug info when you add/remove features from the language. In the mean time, get friendly with unit tests, asserts, contracts, and writef ;)

>
> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not
> being
> able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>
> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing
> more. But
> frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is
> pretty
> much (dare I say it) useless.
>
> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
>

I am with you,

correct debug info and IDE capable to show correctly
will attract developers and decision makers many times
more than e.g. java-to-D transformation tool.

I think that creation of IDE with interactive debugging
is a priority #1 for the community righ now.

Andrew.

In article <d7d64h$522$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Fedoniouk says...
>
>I am with you,
>
>correct debug info and IDE capable to show correctly
>will attract developers and decision makers many times
>more than e.g. java-to-D transformation tool.

I think more important question is what we want to achieve by attracting developers and decision makers?

>
>I think that creation of IDE with interactive debugging
>is a priority #1 for the community righ now.
>

Do you really believe any community will ever be able for to make an IDE more attractive than microsoft's one. I think in next version it will warn you that it is best to disconnect your keyboard to save resources because their 'programming' will be drag-n-drop only where it is needed because in most cases you can just choose a template!

"bobef" <bobef_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d7d749$5u9$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <d7d64h$522$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Fedoniouk says...
>>
>>I am with you,
>>
>>correct debug info and IDE capable to show correctly
>>will attract developers and decision makers many times
>>more than e.g. java-to-D transformation tool.
>
> I think more important question is what we want to achieve by attracting developers and decision makers?
>

:) Ask Walter and Kris for what for, they think, Java-to-D is needed.

>>
>>I think that creation of IDE with interactive debugging
>>is a priority #1 for the community righ now.
>>
>
> Do you really believe any community will ever be able for to make an IDE
> more
> attractive than microsoft's one. I think in next version it will warn you
> that
> it is best to disconnect your keyboard to save resources because their
> 'programming' will be drag-n-drop only where it is needed because in most
> cases
> you can just choose a template!
>

public community can do good IDE - Eclipse for example.
But only in case of proper organization: it has to be an authority -
mangement - dedicated people getting money for the job.

The best IDEs though made by commercial companies: e.g.
the best Java IDE - IntelliJ is a product of JetBrains
(used to be Russian software company - now international)
and this IDE by its feature set and ergonomics beat
MS VS in many places. http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/features/

Andrew.