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January 05, 2007
Native apps on Vista (was Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?)
Guest escribió:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only real reason to use C# is for Win Vista apps since native apps run in a
> very suspicious box.
> 

Would you care to explain that, please? I haven't used Vista so I don't know 
what you're talking about.

-- 
Carlos Santander Bernal
January 05, 2007
Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound@digitalmars.com)'s article
> BCS wrote:
> > D is alos ~7 years old, is at V1.00 and is being develuped by one man
> > with gobs of user input and AFAIN not a lot of funding. It is useful for
> > practically anything.
> D's funding: $0
> D's paid staff: 0
> D's marketing budget: $0
> <g>

How did Guido do it?
January 05, 2007
Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?
TPJ wrote:
> 1) In order to run a program written in D I have to compile it on the target OS.

I haven't talked about this much, but it is technically feasible to 
create a D runtime that enables "compile once, run everywhere". It is 
not necessary to have a VM to do it.
January 05, 2007
Re: Native apps on Vista (was Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?)
Carlos Santander wrote:
> Guest escribió:
>>
>> Only real reason to use C# is for Win Vista apps since native apps run 
>> in a
>> very suspicious box.
> 
> Would you care to explain that, please? I haven't used Vista so I don't 
> know what you're talking about.

If I remember correctly, .NET has a way of running native apps in a 
sandbox to apply its security features to the app.  During Microsoft's 
presentation, my first thought was "so this is how they plan to get MS 
Office running under .NET."  In theory it's kind of a neat idea, but the 
code security features are so badly designed that I don't expect them to 
be very popular.  The maintenance app in the control panel is ghastly, 
and in code I think it's actually possible to override code security if 
it's too much of an obstacle.  I can't remember the details of this last 
feature so I may be remembering it wrong, but at the time I was amazed 
that it was part of the design.


Sean
January 05, 2007
Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?
Waldemar wrote:
> == Quote from Walter Bright (newshound@digitalmars.com)'s article
>> BCS wrote:
>>> D is alos ~7 years old, is at V1.00 and is being develuped by one man
>>> with gobs of user input and AFAIN not a lot of funding. It is useful for
>>> practically anything.
>> D's funding: $0
>> D's paid staff: 0
>> D's marketing budget: $0
>> <g>
> 
> How did Guido do it?

I don't know (I don't know anything about the history of Python).
January 05, 2007
Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?
Walter Bright wrote:
> TPJ wrote:
>> 1) In order to run a program written in D I have to compile it on the 
>> target OS.
> 
> I haven't talked about this much, but it is technically feasible to 
> create a D runtime that enables "compile once, run everywhere". It is 
> not necessary to have a VM to do it.

This would still be limited to a specific architecture, wouldn't it? 
ie. "This app runs on x86, regardless of OS."  Given that there are 
really very few architectures in the marketplace though, this is still a 
killer feature.


Sean
January 05, 2007
Re: Native apps on Vista (was Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?)
Carlos Santander Wrote:

> Guest escribió:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Only real reason to use C# is for Win Vista apps since native apps run in a
> > very suspicious box.
> > 
> 
> Would you care to explain that, please? I haven't used Vista so I don't know 
> what you're talking about.
> 
> -- 
> Carlos Santander Bernal

I'm sorry for my long reply time.  I've read a couple of articles on running native apps in Vista and they have all said that it will be ran in a box that supplies imense security features to protect the user.  It will abort the app as soon as it starts looking suspicious.  That's the box I'm talking about.  So really you should use a .NET language on Vista because the .NET already has the security and won't be ran in a box.  I've also read the box will severely limit your programs access to resources (such as: files,hardware,etc.).

I wish I wrote the url's down of those web pages so I could directly link them to you and when I start reading up on vista again.  I will re reply with a list of url's you may visit.

Guest
January 05, 2007
Re: Native apps on Vista (was Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?)
Carlos Santander Wrote:

> Guest escribió:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Only real reason to use C# is for Win Vista apps since native apps run in a
> > very suspicious box.
> > 
> 
> Would you care to explain that, please? I haven't used Vista so I don't know 
> what you're talking about.
> 
> -- 
> Carlos Santander Bernal

Oh yeah. I forgot to tell you I don't have a Vista myself and would try to switch to linux before buying the junk.
January 05, 2007
Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?
Walter Bright escribió:
> Waldemar wrote:
>> == Quote from Walter Bright (newshound@digitalmars.com)'s article
>>> BCS wrote:
>>>> D is alos ~7 years old, is at V1.00 and is being develuped by one man
>>>> with gobs of user input and AFAIN not a lot of funding. It is useful 
>>>> for
>>>> practically anything.
>>> D's funding: $0
>>> D's paid staff: 0
>>> D's marketing budget: $0
>>> <g>
>>
>> How did Guido do it?
> 
> I don't know (I don't know anything about the history of Python).

Python was a good language, I took more than 10 years (or more) to 
spread out because of the lack of marketing (and the lack of internet 
popularity, not so many people had an internet connection back then). 
Same for Ruby (it's from 1995 but I'm sure you hear about it a couple of 
years ago because of RoR). It only took time, I guess.

The key is the language to be good (and I think D is), then, sooner or 
later, people will notice and start using it. As much as the people know 
it start to spread the word, the sooner this will happen.

Another way to help D to become popular is to write good opensource 
libraries and applications, specially libraries, almost all popular 
languages have a good base of libraries (and the most popular ones have 
good and large *standard* libraries. Of course D counts with all the C 
libraries (which is *a lot* and a great base), but you can't tell people 
to use raw C libraries because they are ugly to use and you lost a lot 
of D power, so I think wrappers (to make them feel comfortable and D'ish 
to work with) will be essential. Or, since D is a system programming 
languages, porting them could be an option too, but this libraries 
probably wont be as popular as C ones until D compilers are available on 
every platform like C compilers are now (and I really don't think this 
will happen in less than 20 years, if it ever happens at all).

Anyway, I think that, with 1.0 out there, there's time to work on useful 
library base and to spread the word so D community grow fast (which is 
essential to success on the first point :).

-- 
Leandro Lucarella
Integratech S.A.
4571-5252
January 05, 2007
Re: D, Java? To D or not to D?
Walter Bright wrote:
> TPJ wrote:
>> 1) In order to run a program written in D I have to compile it on the 
>> target OS.
> 
> I haven't talked about this much, but it is technically feasible to 
> create a D runtime that enables "compile once, run everywhere". It is 
> not necessary to have a VM to do it.

And why haven't you?  ;)  I'd just about guarantee some people would have a use for this. 
 (Client software that needs to be distributed throughout a multi-platform corporation 
environment, for example.  Would speed development, testing, and deployment time all at once.)

So, when you say "technically feasible" should I assume that implies "but an awful lot of 
work?"  Or just "but I haven't thought much on how to do it?"

-- Chris Nicholson-Sauls
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