Hi,

I am fairly new to D, and I would like to write a program that uses a bunch of modules that were written in Python. This is the reverse of what I have read where people use D written dlls in a python program. I have a lot of modules that would take too long to translate to D: a lot of files and several thousand lines of code each. So, it would be nice if I could use these modules with the D program. There are just some features of D that I want to use and I can only get away with these features if the program is a compiled program. Sometimes the python modules will not be used, for example, there is a safe mode that uses no external libraries at all in case something is broken, then you can at least start the program to back things up properly. The only way to do that is to have a compiled binary. Plus, I want to learn more about D application writing and not dll writing. :P I would appreciate it if someone could explain it very thoroughly.

Thanks,
Jon 

Jon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am fairly new to D, and I would like to write a program that uses a bunch of modules that were written in Python. This is the reverse of what I have read where people use D written dlls in a python program. I have a lot of modules that would take too long to translate to D: a lot of files and several thousand lines of code each. So, it would be nice if I could use these modules with the D program. There are just some features of D that I want to use and I can only get away with these features if the program is a compiled program. Sometimes the python modules will not be used, for example, there is a safe mode that uses no external libraries at all in case something is broken, then you can at least start the program to back things up properly. The only way to do that is to have a compiled binary. Plus, I want to learn more about D application writing and not dll writing. :P I would appreciate it if someone could explain it very thoroughly.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jon

There is a translation of the Python C/API.  That should be all you need.
For general instructions on embedding python in a C application see: http://www.python.org/doc/ext/embedding.html
For the D translation of the CPython API, see PyD (Specifically you need this module http://dsource.org/projects/pyd/browser/trunk/infrastructure/python/python.d)

Are you looking for something higher-level?

--bb

What would be higher level than this?

I was hoping for something that would be easy to use and allow me to include all the python modules. Is there an example of some kind for python module you linked? I just import that in my D program and then link to all the modules?

What would be the best course of action for this many modules? Maybe write a module in D that used that python module and all it does is wrap the python modules to cleaner code? I looked briefly at the PyD site, but they tend to have examples showing how to include D modules into Python. :( Did I miss something?

Thanks for replying and taking an interest in helping me. :)

Oh, by the way, I use GDC on Linux. It is the latest GDC version. I am also using Python v2.5.x

"Bill Baxter"wrote in message...
> Jon wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am fairly new to D, and I would like to write a program that uses a bunch of modules that were written in Python. This is the reverse of what I have read where people use D written dlls in a python program. I have a lot of modules that would take too long to translate to D: a lot of files and several thousand lines of code each. So, it would be nice if I could use these modules with the D program. There are just some features of D that I want to use and I can only get away with these features if the program is a compiled program. Sometimes the python modules will not be used, for example, there is a safe mode that uses no external libraries at all in case something is broken, then you can at least start the program to back things up properly. The only way to do that is to have a compiled binary. Plus, I want to learn more about D application writing and not dll writing. :P I would appreciate it if someone could explain it very thoroughly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jon
>
> There is a translation of the Python C/API.  That should be all you need.
> For general instructions on embedding python in a C application see: http://www.python.org/doc/ext/embedding.html
> For the D translation of the CPython API, see PyD (Specifically you need this module http://dsource.org/projects/pyd/browser/trunk/infrastructure/python/python.d)
>
> Are you looking for something higher-level?
>
> --bb 

Jon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am fairly new to D, and I would like to write a program that uses a bunch of modules that were written in Python. This is the reverse of what I have read where people use D written dlls in a python program. I have a lot of modules that would take too long to translate to D: a lot of files and several thousand lines of code each. So, it would be nice if I could use these modules with the D program. There are just some features of D that I want to use and I can only get away with these features if the program is a compiled program. Sometimes the python modules will not be used, for example, there is a safe mode that uses no external libraries at all in case something is broken, then you can at least start the program to back things up properly. The only way to do that is to have a compiled binary. Plus, I want to learn more about D application writing and not dll writing. :P I would appreciate it if someone could explain it very thoroughly.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jon

http://pyd.dsource.org/

BCS wrote:
> Jon wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am fairly new to D, and I would like to write a program that uses a bunch of modules that were written in Python. This is the reverse of what I have read where people use D written dlls in a python program. I have a lot of modules that would take too long to translate to D: a lot of files and several thousand lines of code each. So, it would be nice if I could use these modules with the D program. There are just some features of D that I want to use and I can only get away with these features if the program is a compiled program. Sometimes the python modules will not be used, for example, there is a safe mode that uses no external libraries at all in case something is broken, then you can at least start the program to back things up properly. The only way to do that is to have a compiled binary. Plus, I want to learn more about D application writing and not dll writing. :P I would appreciate it if someone could explain it very thoroughly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jon
> 
> 
> http://pyd.dsource.org/

I'm fairly sure that this will have something for you

Jon wrote:
> What would be higher level than this?
> 
> I was hoping for something that would be easy to use and allow me to include all the python modules. Is there an example of some kind for python module you linked? I just import that in my D program and then link to all the modules?
> 
> What would be the best course of action for this many modules? Maybe write a module in D that used that python module and all it does is wrap the python modules to cleaner code? I looked briefly at the PyD site, but they tend to have examples showing how to include D modules into Python. :( Did I miss something?
> 
> Thanks for replying and taking an interest in helping me. :)
> 
> Oh, by the way, I use GDC on Linux. It is the latest GDC version. I am also using Python v2.5.x
> 

Pyd is geared towards /extending/ Python with D code. It wraps much of the raw Python/C API with a great deal of template trickery. It does this pretty well, if I may say so.

Pyd also comes with an extension to Python's distutils, which makes building these extension modules relatively painless.

You want to /embed/ Python in your D program. You can certainly do this. The Python/C API has support for this. However, it is frequently easier to extend rather than embed. This page covers many of the arguments why:

http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html

If you decide to go the embedding route, you'll basically end up using the Python/C API directly for most things. You can still use Pyd, though. It provides a number of very useful utilities for tying D to Python (e.g. value conversion functions), even if you can't use its high-level function and class wrapping interface. The PydObject class in particular may be useful. (Though some careful attention will need to be paid to how the D GC and the Python interpreter interact.)

Even if you don't use Pyd, you will need the D bindings to the Python/C API, the most complete version of which is part of the Pyd project. Bill already linked to these. I will link to them again:

http://dsource.org/projects/pyd/browser/trunk/infrastructure/python/python.d

Building such applications is not covered by Pyd. Usually, you just need to pass in the right version flags and link against the Python runtime.

-- 
Kirk McDonald
http://kirkmcdonald.blogspot.com
Pyd: Connecting D and Python
http://pyd.dsource.org

It sounds like either way is not that easy. -_- There wouldn't be a python to D convertor anywhere would there? Something like the .h to .d convertor?

"Kirk McDonald" <kirklin.mcdonald@gmail.com> wrote in message news:fd9g3b$2sbh$1@digitalmars.com...
> Jon wrote:
>> What would be higher level than this?
>>
>> I was hoping for something that would be easy to use and allow me to include all the python modules. Is there an example of some kind for python module you linked? I just import that in my D program and then link to all the modules?
>>
>> What would be the best course of action for this many modules? Maybe write a module in D that used that python module and all it does is wrap the python modules to cleaner code? I looked briefly at the PyD site, but they tend to have examples showing how to include D modules into Python. :( Did I miss something?
>>
>> Thanks for replying and taking an interest in helping me. :)
>>
>> Oh, by the way, I use GDC on Linux. It is the latest GDC version. I am also using Python v2.5.x
>>
>
> Pyd is geared towards /extending/ Python with D code. It wraps much of the raw Python/C API with a great deal of template trickery. It does this pretty well, if I may say so.
>
> Pyd also comes with an extension to Python's distutils, which makes building these extension modules relatively painless.
>
> You want to /embed/ Python in your D program. You can certainly do this. The Python/C API has support for this. However, it is frequently easier to extend rather than embed. This page covers many of the arguments why:
>
> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html
>
> If you decide to go the embedding route, you'll basically end up using the Python/C API directly for most things. You can still use Pyd, though. It provides a number of very useful utilities for tying D to Python (e.g. value conversion functions), even if you can't use its high-level function and class wrapping interface. The PydObject class in particular may be useful. (Though some careful attention will need to be paid to how the D GC and the Python interpreter interact.)
>
> Even if you don't use Pyd, you will need the D bindings to the Python/C API, the most complete version of which is part of the Pyd project. Bill already linked to these. I will link to them again:
>
> http://dsource.org/projects/pyd/browser/trunk/infrastructure/python/python.d
>
> Building such applications is not covered by Pyd. Usually, you just need to pass in the right version flags and link against the Python runtime.
>
> -- 
> Kirk McDonald
> http://kirkmcdonald.blogspot.com
> Pyd: Connecting D and Python
> http://pyd.dsource.org 

"Jon" <SchaduwBlink@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:fd9inf$2voj$1@digitalmars.com...
> It sounds like either way is not that easy. -_- There wouldn't be a python to D convertor anywhere would there? Something like the .h to .d convertor?
>

No offense, but apples to oranges.  Converting a C header file to D is mostly a mechanical process -- there is (usually) no actual code to convert, just function and type declarations.  D is also (almost) a superset of C, meaning that semantically there's not much difference between C and D code.

Automatic translation of a language such as Python to D would be an incredibly complex undertaking.  Think writing a Python to native code compiler which preserved all the language semantics at runtime -- that's basically what you'd be doing, although not all the way to machine code, just to D code.  The languages are just too different for one to be converted to the other.  This is why Pyrex exists.  Probably about the closest you could _practically_ get would be something like Pyrex that outputted D code instead of C code.

Jon wrote:
> It sounds like either way is not that easy. -_- There wouldn't be a python to D convertor anywhere would there? Something like the .h to .d convertor?
> 

Please don't top-post.

No. There's no sensible way to directly use Python code in D code. Python is dynamically typed. It is highly introspective. It has eval/exec. Things such as integers, functions, and classes are first-class objects in Python. Python distinguishes between runtime and compile-time much differently than D does. (Much more happens at runtime in Python than in D.)

What you /can/ do, and what the PydObject class in Pyd does, is write a class wrapping a PyObject* which overloads all of the operators, and delegates them off to the appropriate Python/C API functions. A small example of PydObject's use can be found in the presentation I gave at the D conference:

http://pyd.dsource.org/dconf2007/presentation.html

Just search for "PydObject" on that page. Note that this demonstrates the use of PydObject when extending Python with Pyd. Using it when embedding Python will look a little different.

-- 
Kirk McDonald
http://kirkmcdonald.blogspot.com
Pyd: Connecting D and Python
http://pyd.dsource.org

Jon wrote:
> It sounds like either way is not that easy. -_- 

No, it's not 'import my.python.modules.*' easy.
But it's also not all that complicated, just a little tedious.

> There wouldn't be a python to D convertor anywhere would there? Something like the .h to .d convertor?

No, and there probably never will be because the languages are just too different.

> "Kirk McDonald" <kirklin.mcdonald@gmail.com> wrote in message news:fd9g3b$2sbh$1@digitalmars.com...
>> Jon wrote:
>>> What would be higher level than this?
>>>
>>> I was hoping for something that would be easy to use and allow me to include all the python modules. Is there an example of some kind for python module you linked? I just import that in my D program and then link to all the modules?
>>>
>>> What would be the best course of action for this many modules? Maybe write a module in D that used that python module and all it does is wrap the python modules to cleaner code? I looked briefly at the PyD site, but they tend to have examples showing how to include D modules into Python. :( Did I miss something?
>>>
>>> Thanks for replying and taking an interest in helping me. :)
>>>
>>> Oh, by the way, I use GDC on Linux. It is the latest GDC version. I am also using Python v2.5.x
>>>
>>
>> Pyd is geared towards /extending/ Python with D code. It wraps much of the raw Python/C API with a great deal of template trickery. It does this pretty well, if I may say so.
>>
>> Pyd also comes with an extension to Python's distutils, which makes building these extension modules relatively painless.
>>
>> You want to /embed/ Python in your D program. You can certainly do this. The Python/C API has support for this. However, it is frequently easier to extend rather than embed. This page covers many of the arguments why:
>>
>> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html
>>
>> If you decide to go the embedding route, you'll basically end up using the Python/C API directly for most things. You can still use Pyd, though. It provides a number of very useful utilities for tying D to Python (e.g. value conversion functions), even if you can't use its high-level function and class wrapping interface. The PydObject class in particular may be useful. (Though some careful attention will need to be paid to how the D GC and the Python interpreter interact.)
>>
>> Even if you don't use Pyd, you will need the D bindings to the Python/C API, the most complete version of which is part of the Pyd project. Bill already linked to these. I will link to them again:
>>
>> http://dsource.org/projects/pyd/browser/trunk/infrastructure/python/python.d 
>>
>>
>> Building such applications is not covered by Pyd. Usually, you just need to pass in the right version flags and link against the Python runtime.
>>
>> -- 
>> Kirk McDonald
>> http://kirkmcdonald.blogspot.com
>> Pyd: Connecting D and Python
>> http://pyd.dsource.org 
>