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October 10, 2008
See Sharper, See D
A presentation by Anders Heilsberg on the future of C# that could be 
mistaken as a deconstruction of D 2 and its feature set: const correctness, 
pure functions, un/sharing, etc. There is also the mention of interleaving 
of dynamic and static code, an attempt to assimilate the strengths of some 
dynamic languages.

http://jaoo.blip.tv/#1324214

D is included in the sides towards the end, along with some other popular or 
emerging languages, like Fortress.

One point made by Anders, when talking about F#, is how it reverses the 
trend of variance over invariance (or mutability over immutability, if you 
will). Ain't the future of "immutable everywhere" blissful (if only we 
didn't have to type it). Serial language designers and computational 
theologists rejoice.

Anyway, it's great to see the same powerful ideas being woven into the 
fabric of mainstream programming. New hybrids, new mutants and in some 
cases, new monsters.

- Bent
October 10, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
Bent Rasmussen:
> A presentation by Anders Heilsberg on the future of C# that could be 
> mistaken as a deconstruction of D 2 and its feature set: const correctness, 
> pure functions, un/sharing, etc.

Nice video. I think lot of those people think that D is backwards: they all think that the future (and present too) of languages is on "platforms" that are based on a virtual machine. Well, D will probably run on the LLVM, so I hope D too will be a little part of the future (once D runs well on LLVM, a stanrdar module can be added to compile functions on the fly, that is to implement the eval() function. And maybe the D language can grow few of the features you can see in VM-based languages).
At that point D may be used as both as Java and C :-) The problem is of course that the future is more in Scala, C#, F#, Haskell, etc, and not much in Java anymore :-)

Bye,
bearophile
October 10, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
bearophile wrote:

> The problem is of course
> that the future is more in Scala, C#, F#, Haskell, etc, and not much in
> Java anymore :-)

And who told you that?

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
October 10, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
Lars Ivar Igesund Wrote:
> And who told you that?

The great grizzly has whispered it to me:
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/800/grizzly-bear.jpg

Bye,
bearophile
October 10, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
That future of is like the lambda in front of the language enthusiast' - 
Sorry, it's like the carrot in front of the donkey. Always out of reach for 
the masses.

Of course C# is the present - in a major way - and probably the future, for 
the forseeable future. Then there's F#, easy on the eyes and with some 
potential. There's Scala, it's hybrid, coherent and highly expressive 
language but somehow doesn't look like a mainstream proposition.

No point going further down the list.

- Bent

' guess who(m)

"Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivar@igesund.net> skrev i meddelelsen 
news:gco93f$12jg$1@digitalmars.com...
> bearophile wrote:
>
>> The problem is of course
>> that the future is more in Scala, C#, F#, Haskell, etc, and not much in
>> Java anymore :-)
>
> And who told you that?
>
> -- 
> Lars Ivar Igesund
> blog at http://larsivi.net
> DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
> Dancing the Tango
October 10, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
Bent Rasmussen wrote:

> That future of is like the lambda in front of the language enthusiast' -
> Sorry, it's like the carrot in front of the donkey. Always out of reach
> for the masses.
> 
> Of course C# is the present - in a major way - and probably the future,
> for the forseeable future. Then there's F#, easy on the eyes and with some
> potential. There's Scala, it's hybrid, coherent and highly expressive
> language but somehow doesn't look like a mainstream proposition.
> 
> No point going further down the list.

Well, the point is that I have yet to see any large projects in either of
those languages (they exist, they're just not everywhere). In Java however,
I hear of large new projects every day. I know that there may be
geographical differences, but from this hill it looks like companies that
build and sell their own software choose whichever language/platform that
suits them (and if Windows centric that often is C#), whereas the typical,
largish consultant contracts opt for Java.

Statements of what is the future, altogether forget that deployed software
control a large portion of any future, such as the shortage of COBOL
programmers have shown. New, niche languages isn't the future just because
they get a lot of attention in the blogosphere. Most programmers seems to
be rather unaware of most stuff discussed there.

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
October 10, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
No doubt about it. The point was that some of us are donkeys, chasing 
carrots. ;-)
- which has little to do with mainstream penetration

- Bent

"Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivar@igesund.net> skrev i meddelelsen 
news:gcocp6$1o9b$1@digitalmars.com...
> Bent Rasmussen wrote:
>
>> That future of is like the lambda in front of the language enthusiast' -
>> Sorry, it's like the carrot in front of the donkey. Always out of reach
>> for the masses.
>>
>> Of course C# is the present - in a major way - and probably the future,
>> for the forseeable future. Then there's F#, easy on the eyes and with 
>> some
>> potential. There's Scala, it's hybrid, coherent and highly expressive
>> language but somehow doesn't look like a mainstream proposition.
>>
>> No point going further down the list.
>
> Well, the point is that I have yet to see any large projects in either of
> those languages (they exist, they're just not everywhere). In Java 
> however,
> I hear of large new projects every day. I know that there may be
> geographical differences, but from this hill it looks like companies that
> build and sell their own software choose whichever language/platform that
> suits them (and if Windows centric that often is C#), whereas the typical,
> largish consultant contracts opt for Java.
>
> Statements of what is the future, altogether forget that deployed software
> control a large portion of any future, such as the shortage of COBOL
> programmers have shown. New, niche languages isn't the future just because
> they get a lot of attention in the blogosphere. Most programmers seems to
> be rather unaware of most stuff discussed there.
>
> -- 
> Lars Ivar Igesund
> blog at http://larsivi.net
> DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
> Dancing the Tango
October 11, 2008
Re: See Sharper, See D
Bent Rasmussen wrote:
> No doubt about it. The point was that some of us are donkeys, chasing 
> carrots. ;-)
> - which has little to do with mainstream penetration
> 
> - Bent

Read you how not is posting top, enthusiast Forth a you're unless.

Specifically, when you top post, I assume that you simply forgot to 
write a post while quoting someone else.
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