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December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 2:30 AM, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> Am 29.12.2012 07:08, schrieb Walter Bright:
>> On 12/28/2012 8:56 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> I'm a little concerned (well, more than a little concerned) about it becoming a
>>> collection of junk posts. How does the PHP one avoid that?
>>
>> Further perusal of the PHP ones show quite a bit of junk posts. Is there a way to enable a single
>> button delete for the moderator?
>
> As a moderator you have quick access to "Mark as spam", "Blacklist" and "Delete" for each message
> and there is a separate moderation page, where all messages can be filtered and handled in batches.

Great. Could you please make e.g. Walter and myself moderators so we can 
experiment?

> Also there is voting for ordinary users, which at least should quickly move them to the bottom (not
> sure if they get collapsed as on reddit at some point).

Let's try that. Everyone, please downvote the comment by "Peter Spammer" 
down to hell at http://goo.gl/j5nA4.


Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 2:38 AM, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> We could also make the comments collapsed by default to clean up the page appearance. But regarding
> professionalism, even Microsoft has user comments on MSDN:
> <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms632679%28VS.85%29.aspx>. Nothing keeps a moderator from
> deleting outdated comments (you can have as many moderators as needed and can also enable
> pre-moderation).
>
> And frankly, in my experience such comments were immensely helpful in a number of cases on various
> online documentation sites (including MSDN and ...PHP). They are like an in-place stack overflow
> discussion that you don't have to search for, often with some real gems.

Yes. I very strongly believe we need to have a form of 
community-provided contents. (Not sure whether disqus is the most 
appropriate vehicle, but since it's the only one that's currently 
implemented, it's by definition the best we have.) So I'm willing to 
fight issues and do more work as a moderator for the sake of crowdsourcing.

Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 4:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/28/2012 11:30 PM, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
>> As a moderator you have quick access to "Mark as spam", "Blacklist"
>> and "Delete" for each message
>> and there is a separate moderation page, where all messages can be
>> filtered and handled in batches.
>>
>> Also there is voting for ordinary users, which at least should quickly
>> move them to the bottom (not
>> sure if they get collapsed as on reddit at some point).
>>
>
> I know there are ways to cheat using the voting system, and reddit has a
> way to deal with that, too.
>
> Essentially, none of these systems are foolproof, and may wind up
> requiring constant attention to keep the spam out.

There is a price, but it should be seen in conjunction with the 
corresponding benefits. I think we should definitely experiment with this.

Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 5:23 AM, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> Am 29.12.2012 10:48, schrieb Walter Bright:
>> Essentially, none of these systems are foolproof, and may wind up requiring constant attention to
>> keep the spam out.
>
> Regarding spam, it also supports the following:
>
>   - Allow only registered users to post or require pre-moderation for unregistered users or users
> without validated email address
>   - Black/whitelists for users, e-mail addresses, IPs and keywords
>   - A list of restricted words that will cause a message to require pre-moderation
>   - Automated spam filtering using Akismet
>
> Together I think these should be very effective at dealing with both, spam and troll comments

Terrific. Sönke, could you please babysit me through all of these 
features? I'd love to take a look at the amenities. What should I do?

Thanks,

Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 14:22:27 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
> Yes. I very strongly believe we need to have a form of 
> community-provided contents. (Not sure whether disqus is the 
> most appropriate vehicle, but since it's the only one that's 
> currently implemented, it's by definition the best we have.)

We also have a wiki, and the existing links to it on each page.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 13:11:24 UTC, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> Am 29.12.2012 13:40, schrieb Vladimir Panteleev:
>> On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 07:56:15 UTC, F i L wrote:
>>> I don't think it should be collapsed by default (it's less 
>>> googlable that way).. just throwing
>>> that out there.
>> 
>> Disqus comments cannot be indexed by Google either way, as 
>> Disqus is a purely JavaScript-based
>> comment system.
>
> They claim otherwise: 
> http://disqus.com/for-websites/control-and-seo
>
> "Disqus is fully indexable for search engines out- of-the-box. 
> We have been approved by the Google
> Search Quality team to be organically crawled unlike any other 
> comment platform."

It's vague whether that applies to their basic JS widget (which 
is used on vibed.org now), or their WordPress plugin. I believe 
that in order for Google to see their comments, the comments need 
to be visible with JS turned off (cached locally and sent by the 
website's web server), which their WordPress plugin does - but 
which can't be achieved with our current dlang.org setup, which 
serves static HTML pages.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 04:36:09 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
> All - please take a look at Sönke's integration of Disqus with 
> dlang.org:
>
> http://vibed.org/temp/d-programming-language.org/phobos/std/algorithm/balancedParens.html
>
> What do you think?

Sönke has listed the advantages provided by Disqus. I'll list a 
few disadvantages (some of which may be obvious) for 
consideration:

1. It is a free service provided by a third party.
   As their TOS states, they may cancel or limit the service at 
any time without prior warning. Although data export is great, it 
would still require finding or coming up with an alternative 
should the need occur, and it is unknown whether someone will 
volunteer for the effort.

2. It is based on JavaScript.
   The implications are possible usability/accessibility issues, 
increased page load times, adding another loading stage (the 
content will shift/rewrap due to e.g. appearance of a scrollbar 
once new content is loaded), and possible issues with search 
engine indexing.

3. It is not integrated with anything we have now.
   This is subjective, but I think it's not that great to spread 
ourselves over a multitude of services (some third-party), 
especially when there is some overlap in functionality between 
them. Discussions can be held on the mailing lists, newsgroups, 
wiki talk pages, IRC, Trello (?), and now Disqus. Is this 
desirable?

Alternatives:

1. Consider an open-source comment system which uses a local 
database and generates static HTML (solves problems 1 and 2).

2. Integrate wiki.dlang.org into dlang.org pages. We already have 
wiki integration to some extent (a button that currently links to 
a page on the old wiki).

3. Integrate forum.dlang.org into dlang.org pages, e.g. using an 
iframe and some CSS tweaks.

Disclaimer: I maintain forum.dlang.org and wiki.dlang.org and 
personally dislike Disqus, so there *might* be some conflict of 
interest ;)
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 14:27:18 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 12/29/12 4:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 12/28/2012 11:30 PM, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
>>> As a moderator you have quick access to "Mark as spam", 
>>> "Blacklist"
>>> and "Delete" for each message
>>> and there is a separate moderation page, where all messages 
>>> can be
>>> filtered and handled in batches.
>>>
>>> Also there is voting for ordinary users, which at least 
>>> should quickly
>>> move them to the bottom (not
>>> sure if they get collapsed as on reddit at some point).
>>>
>>
>> I know there are ways to cheat using the voting system, and 
>> reddit has a
>> way to deal with that, too.
>>
>> Essentially, none of these systems are foolproof, and may wind 
>> up
>> requiring constant attention to keep the spam out.
>
> There is a price, but it should be seen in conjunction with the 
> corresponding benefits. I think we should definitely experiment 
> with this.
>
> Andrei

I think there should be a few designed moderators for the 
community, and a way to quickly report abuses.

Let me remind we have in this very newsgroup a drunk dude who 
regularly keeps throwing random insults around under different 
nicknames (right now, Han). Not to mention the occasional spam. 
Maybe if someone started taking care of these guys already...
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 15:59:16 UTC, SomeDude wrote:
> Let me remind we have in this very newsgroup a drunk dude who 
> regularly keeps throwing random insults around under different 
> nicknames (right now, Han). Not to mention the occasional spam. 
> Maybe if someone started taking care of these guys already...

Walter removes such posts regularly. The problem is that 
forum.dlang.org caches them indefinitely. I'm working on this 
problem right now.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
Am 29.12.2012 15:19, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:
> On 12/29/12 2:30 AM, Sönke Ludwig wrote:
>> Am 29.12.2012 07:08, schrieb Walter Bright:
>>> On 12/28/2012 8:56 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> I'm a little concerned (well, more than a little concerned) about it becoming a
>>>> collection of junk posts. How does the PHP one avoid that?
>>>
>>> Further perusal of the PHP ones show quite a bit of junk posts. Is there a way to enable a single
>>> button delete for the moderator?
>>
>> As a moderator you have quick access to "Mark as spam", "Blacklist" and "Delete" for each message
>> and there is a separate moderation page, where all messages can be filtered and handled in batches.
> 
> Great. Could you please make e.g. Walter and myself moderators so we can experiment?
> 
>> Also there is voting for ordinary users, which at least should quickly move them to the bottom (not
>> sure if they get collapsed as on reddit at some point).
> 
> Let's try that. Everyone, please downvote the comment by "Peter Spammer" down to hell at
> http://goo.gl/j5nA4.
> 
> 
> Andrei

I've made you (using the auto-generated FConnect user) and Walter (using the walter@digitalmars.com
e-mail address) moderators with full access. If you log in on http://disqus.com/dashboard/
you /should/ see "vibe.d" under "Your Sites". Choosing that will reveal a number of tabs where all
the features are found. Feel free to change anything you like, the account is used only for testing
this out.
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