I see there is a lot of high quality D stuff on some japanese sites... This is cool but why not in english? I mean it is cool to write in your own language but maybe on some later stage where D community is larger the C++ one worldwide and there is pretty much D stuff everywhere. In my opinion we should make our D things more "accessible" to help the development of D, and english is kind-of international language... This is my opinion of course...

bobef wrote:
> I see there is a lot of high quality D stuff on some japanese sites... This is
> cool but why not in english? 

Because maybe they don't know it.

> I mean it is cool to write in your own language but
> maybe on some later stage where D community is larger the C++ one worldwide and
> there is pretty much D stuff everywhere. In my opinion we should make our D
> things more "accessible" to help the development of D, and english is kind-of
> international language... This is my opinion of course...

You could try the translation yourself. Goodluck.

On 21/06/2005 4:31 AM, bobef wrote:
> I see there is a lot of high quality D stuff on some japanese sites... This is
> cool but why not in english?

> In my opinion we should make our D
> things more "accessible" to help the development of D, and english is kind-of
> international language... This is my opinion of course...

I'm a native English speaker and don't (unfortunately) know any other spoken languages, but it sometimes concerns me that English has become the "must know" defacto standard language in the technology sector especially. It must be really difficult for non-English speakers to understand the many subtleties and ambiguities in English in order to fully grasp a programming language and utilise code libraries etc.

It would be nice to have a simple, "universal" non-aligned language like Esperanto in regular use but then again I'm an idealist ...

Brian.

>I'm a native English speaker and don't (unfortunately) know any other spoken languages, but it sometimes concerns me that English has become the "must know" defacto standard language in the technology sector especially. It must be really difficult for non-English speakers to understand the many subtleties and ambiguities in English in order to fully grasp a programming language and utilise code libraries etc.
>
>It would be nice to have a simple, "universal" non-aligned language like Esperanto in regular use but then again I'm an idealist ...
>
>Brian.

I am not a native english speaker (french if you must know) but I disagree. If there must be one international language (and  i do think it is usefull), why try to use one like esperanto which has no native speaker? It just becomes a problem for more people. Besides, esperanto is NOT easier to learn than english. Difficulty of a language basicly comes down to how similar it is to one you already speak.

Esperanto is rather easy for european speakers, because it has been created to be very similar to what they have in common. But it is not any easier for, say, japanese people.

More over, the best way to learn a language is to practice. You need to read book, or watch movies, or stay in a country where it is spoken... None of which is really an option for artificial languages, because there are no such country, and the material in these language is bound to be far more limited than in a natural language.

Any international language will always be, in my opinion, the one of a country or civilisation of major influence over the world. As was latin thanks to Rome, as was french to some extend through it's colonial empire, as english has become through UK's colonial empire follow by american economic influence on the world. If you want to look for which language is likely to be the major international language of tomorow, if english is to be replaced, I'd rather point to Chinese, or Arab. Not because they are more neutral, or easy or anything. Because they spoken by many people, in influencial civilisations. But if you ask me, english is here to stay for a while, until a major change in the world order.

In article <d9721c$1avn$1@digitaldaemon.com>, bobef_member@pathlink.com says...
> I see there is a lot of high quality D stuff on some japanese sites... This is cool but why not in english? I mean it is cool to write in your own language but maybe on some later stage where D community is larger the C++ one worldwide and there is pretty much D stuff everywhere. In my opinion we should make our D things more "accessible" to help the development of D, and english is kind-of international language... This is my opinion of course...

Prolly because the ppl writing these sites only know Japanese.

  The more interesting question is to how D got to have
a following in .jp, I'm thinking that there must have
been someone who knows english and japanese who was a
bit of an evangelist for D.

 - Factory

bobef wrote:
> I see there is a lot of high quality D stuff on some japanese sites... This is
> cool but why not in english? I mean it is cool to write in your own language but
> maybe on some later stage where D community is larger the C++ one worldwide and
> there is pretty much D stuff everywhere. In my opinion we should make our D
> things more "accessible" to help the development of D, and english is kind-of
> international language... This is my opinion of course...
> 
> 
There's a flip side to this - Japanese D stuff makes D more accessible to Japanese speakers who do not speak English, whereas they would be left behind without it. Isn't there room for both? I'd say that the more stuff that gets done with D in native languages the better, because that will make it available to more people.

In article <d98tuv$2ssj$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Mike Parker says...
>
>There's a flip side to this - Japanese D stuff makes D more accessible to Japanese speakers who do not speak English, whereas they would be left behind without it. Isn't there room for both? I'd say that the more stuff that gets done with D in native languages the better, because that will make it available to more people.

I doubt it. Everyone who deals with computers has to deal with english, more or less. With time it becomes less but before not so many years how many programs had even an option for translation to non-english?

florian wrote:
<snip>
> I am not a native english speaker (french if you must know) but I disagree. If
> there must be one international language (and  i do think it is usefull), why
> try to use one like esperanto which has no native speaker? It just becomes a
> problem for more people. Besides, esperanto is NOT easier to learn than english.
> Difficulty of a language basicly comes down to how similar it is to one you
> already speak.

Which is the greater factor in determining ease of learning a language - simplicity or similarity?

> Esperanto is rather easy for european speakers, because it has been created to
> be very similar to what they have in common. But it is not any easier for, say,
> japanese people.

It would appear that Zamenhof wasn't so familiar with the workings of many non-European languages.

Loglan and Lojban, OTOH, have been described as more culturally neutral, since they have somewhat less in common with natural languages.  And presumably a more balanced collection of vocabulary sources....

> More over, the best way to learn a language is to practice. You need to read
> book, or watch movies, or stay in a country where it is spoken... None of which
> is really an option for artificial languages, because there are no such country,
> and the material in these language is bound to be far more limited than in a
> natural language.
<snip>

True.  But ATMS Esperanto has quite a body of both original and translated literature.

Stewart.

-- 
My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

I'm japanese, and I agree that we should make our D stuff more accessible...

The trouble is that most jp programmers feels some difficulty in 'writing' in english, although they have a certain ability to read. (And perhaps they are excessively shy to write in the language they cannot use well.)

Some months ago, Sakurai has begun a bugtracking service of D in japan:
http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~labamba/?BugTrack
He translates the bug reports into english and re-posts to digitalmars.D.bugs.
Somthing like this may be needed not just for bug reporting but also
for software/project publication...

Kazuhiro Inaba

In article <d994lf$1mf$1@digitaldaemon.com>, bobef says...
>

..

>
>I doubt it. Everyone who deals with computers has to deal with english, more or less. With time it becomes less but before not so many years how many programs had even an option for translation to non-english?
>
>

My question is when will you translate your programs into other languages so that local programmers of those languages will be comfortable reading them? What says they have to learn your language? They've gone through the trouble of writing something for themselves, and making it freely available for your use. When will you even attempt to learn reading it? Are you saying the Japanese are smarter than your are? They can atleast read English but you will never be able to read or speak Japanese!

Get over yourself! Maybe after you have spent the time learning their language and translating your code so that they may have a simpler time reading it, you can try posting your question again.

Andrew
a.k.a. Tyro