D1 + Tango with a different Python-inspired syntax; close to my ideal language:

http://delight.sourceforge.net/

There are just few things I don't like, but they are generally minor, and maybe the author can change some of them still.

Bye,
bearophile

bearophile wrote:
> D1 + Tango with a different Python-inspired syntax; close to my ideal language:
> 
> http://delight.sourceforge.net/
> 
> There are just few things I don't like, but they are generally minor, and maybe the author can change some of them still.
> 
> Bye,
> bearophile
Interesting!
Is there any performance loss from compared to D language ?
I can predict the following destiny to Delight Language, the main maintener of delight will create a good standard lib called Deimos but another developer not satisfied by the methods name will fork and create another one called Salsa.
Then Delight will evolve and there will be a Delight 1.0 and a Delight 2.0 with incompatible code.
So poor developers will be lost and will keep on waiting for another language without all the issues.
Of course this scenario is pure fiction ;-)

Mosfet:
> Is there any performance loss from compared to D language ?

No, it's just D1 resyntaxed. That is, it generally improves on the old-school syntax of D ;-)

Bye,
bearophile

In article <gbg74u$1bom$1@digitalmars.com>, bearophileHUGS@lycos.com says...
> Mosfet:
> > Is there any performance loss from compared to D language ?
> 
> No, it's just D1 resyntaxed. That is, it generally improves on the old-school syntax of D ;-)

I'd like to look at some real-world example written in Delight.  I'm afraid that the lack of global state will result in either a huge amount of arguments passed to every function or huge ad-hoc interfaces grouping other interfaces just to pass some functionality up-stream.

Sergey Gromov:
> I'd like to look at some real-world example written in Delight.

I have not tried to run it yet because it's for Linux for now.


> I'm afraid that the lack of global state will result in either a huge amount of arguments passed to every function or huge ad-hoc interfaces grouping other interfaces just to pass some functionality up-stream.

I agree, that's one of the main things I think have to be fixed in Delight, having global vars (and maybe a global main function too).

The other main problem comes from the tabs as indents, this explains why it's bad: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-January/183758.html

There are other problems in Delight, but I think they are minor.

There's a (for me) surprisingly large discussion on Reddit about Delight, 82 comments so far: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/73d15/d_meets_python/

Bye,
bearophile

bearophile schrieb:
> D1 + Tango with a different Python-inspired syntax; close to my ideal language:
> 
> http://delight.sourceforge.net/
> 
> There are just few things I don't like, but they are generally minor, and maybe the author can change some of them still.
> 
> Bye,
> bearophile

Good to see another BOO.
bearophile, if you hate D that much : write a Python compiler.
Bjoern

BLS:
> bearophile, if you hate D that much : write a Python compiler.

You are silly, I like D.
And I have already done that (I have given help):
http://code.google.com/p/shedskin/

Bye,
bearophile

bearophile schrieb:
> BLS:
>> bearophile, if you hate D that much : write a Python compiler.
> 
> You are silly, I like D.
> And I have already done that (I have given help):
> http://code.google.com/p/shedskin/
> 
> Bye,
> bearophile
To me it seems to be silly to compare Python and D.
Bjoern
PS / I know that you are a D Enthusiast. But  Sometimes I wonder why.

bearophile wrote:
> Sergey Gromov:
>> I'd like to look at some real-world example written in Delight.
> 
> I have not tried to run it yet because it's for Linux for now.
> 
> 
>> I'm afraid that the lack of global state will result in either a huge amount of arguments passed to every function or huge ad-hoc interfaces grouping other interfaces just to pass some functionality up-stream.
> 
> I agree, that's one of the main things I think have to be fixed in Delight, having global vars (and maybe a global main function too).

Could you explain why?
IMO, this is actually a good idea [not having global state]. it does
provide capability based security even if that wasn't the original goal.
I also liked the IoC built into the language.
> 
> The other main problem comes from the tabs as indents, this explains why it's bad: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-January/183758.html
> 
This is (for me) the most important reason why I won't use this language (even though I like some of the ideas behind it). I hate Python syntax. mainly because the indentation style is forced on the programmer. I do recognize that there are use-cases for this style but I also think this should not be forced for _all_ use-cases. Ruby, for example, provides two ways (you can either use braces or the "end" keyword). IMHO, this should be provided as a compiler option.

another example is Nemerle that provides "#pragma indent". see http://nemerle.org/Indentation-based_syntax


> There are other problems in Delight, but I think they are minor.
> 
> There's a (for me) surprisingly large discussion on Reddit about Delight, 82 comments so far: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/73d15/d_meets_python/
> 
> Bye, bearophile

Yigal Chripun:

>Could you explain why? IMO, this is actually a good idea [not having global state]. it does provide capability based security even if that wasn't the original goal.<

I have never programmed in a language without global state, so I presume I have to try it before criticizing it.
I think of global vars like the "goto" in D: usually (for sizable programs) you can do better without them, but once in a while they may help.
And I think in quick & dirty script-like programs 10-20 lines long that you need to use few times global variables may speed up your programming.

And in D/Python modules I use global functions all the time, I don't use just classes like in Java.

Bye,
bearophile