On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:03:39 +0000 (UTC), Kris wrote:

> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>
>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>
>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>> 
>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)
>>
>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
> 
> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
> 
> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

LOL, I was waiting for somebody to say that...you guys are so predicable, but funny too. Monty Python never grows old. ;-)

-- 
Derek
Melbourne, Australia
22/02/2005 4:13:23 PM

Kris <Kris_member@pathlink.com> wrote in news:cveefb$1ots$1@digitaldaemon.com:

> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>
>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>
>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>> 
>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)
>>
>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
> 
> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
> 
> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
> 
> 
> 

I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

In article <Xns9604D616744DAikeathesofaAThotmail@63.105.9.61>, IkeaTheSofa says...
>
>C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi; Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH
>
>C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>
>
>... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in general)? I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a different issue.
>

Don't feel embarassed by this, but the D compiler isn't the entire distribution. Technically, it relies on the DMC backend to get the linking and .exe building accomplished.

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dcompiler.html

Just download the "linker and utilities" from the page and install them on your system.  The trick is to unzip them into a folder that sits *next to* your dmd folder.

(using your file layout garnered from above)
c:\D\dmd\dmd\  <--- your current dmd installation
c:\D\dmd\dm\ <--- where the linker and utilities should go

This way the path "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe"  will actually run "link.exe" to compose an exe.

You mentioned that line-command compilation was a new thing to you.  Granted, it's easy to think of working outside of an IDE a bit "old fashioned" but its really a power-user's interface (well from a unix/linux perspective anyway) and anything but out-moded.  As has been mentioned, D is anything but a beginners tool at this point, so anything you master now with D will place you on the inside track for later (IMO).

Enjoy!

- EricAnderton at yahoo

Its not bad at all once you get used to it.  You might want to check:
http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?D__Tutorial

And... you have an IDE for PHP??  Interesting... I always just used EditPlus.  (Though I might be switching to ConTEXT now.)  I'm wondering what an IDE for PHP would provide?

-- Chris S

IkeaTheSofa wrote:
> I have to say that I appreciate the posts. I don't quite understand how command line compiling works.(i'm on win XP) I have downloded dmc dmd, cygwin and MinGW. I have been trying to figure out how to work. Since I only have exerince developing PHP and Java both of which use IDE's I feel  totally lost here.
> 
> I tried to compile an example programm from D spec webpage and this is what I get:
> 
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> 
> C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd
> Digital Mars D Compiler v0.113
> Copyright (c) 1999-2005 by Digital Mars written by Walter Bright
> Documentation: www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html
> Usage:
>   dmd files.d ... { -switch }
> 
>   files.d        D source files
>   -c             do not link
>   -d             allow deprecated features
>   -g             add symbolic debug info
>   -gt            add trace profiling hooks
>   -v             verbose
>   -O             optimize
>   -odobjdir      write object files to directory objdir
>   -offilename    name output file to filename
>   -op            do not strip paths from source file
>   -Ipath         where to look for imports
>   -Llinkerflag   pass linkerflag to link
>   -debug         compile in debug code
>   -debug=level   compile in debug code <= level
>   -debug=ident   compile in debug code identified by ident
>   -inline        do function inlining
>   -release       compile release version
>   -unittest      compile in unit tests
>   -version=level compile in version code >= level
>   -version=ident compile in version code identified by ident
> 
> C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d
> C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi;
> Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH
> 
> C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>
> 
> .... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in general)?  I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a different issue.
> 
> Thank you again.

In article <1rhc9p9g5pw2x$.x1drpsydetk4.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>
>On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:03:39 +0000 (UTC), Kris wrote:
>
>> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>>> 
>>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)
>>>
>>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
>> 
>> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
>> 
>> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
>
>LOL, I was waiting for somebody to say that...you guys are so predicable, but funny too. Monty Python never grows old. ;-)
>

Stop that.  You're being entirely too silly.

.. and now for something completely different.

- EricAnderton at yahoo

IkeaTheSofa wrote:
> Kris <Kris_member@pathlink.com> wrote in
> news:cveefb$1ots$1@digitaldaemon.com: 
> 
> 
>>In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell
>>says... 
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not true, my friend.
>>>>
>>>>Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the
>>>>lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd
>>>>love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but
>>>>that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything
>>>>from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and
>>>>etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it
>>>>run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might
>>>>change.. ;) 
>>>
>>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first
>>>learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets!
>>>And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
>>
>>You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of
>>broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own
>>shift-registers! 
>>
>>Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts
> 

The command line is not that hard. It was explained to me in another thread how to get it working up in windows. I think you go to start->control panel->advanced setting->enironmental variable->PATH and add C:\dmd and C:\dm to your windows PATH, so that when you type dmd in the command prompt you get the version etc.

If you don't want to learn makefiles than there are alternatives around such as D make and D build, in which you can type 'dmake main.d' and it finds all your files for you and builds them into an exe.

There is a small learning curve with the command line, just put a link to the command prompt on the desktop and use commands
cd - change directory
dir - list directory contents
to move around
example:
cd C:\myProject\
dmd main.d
main
hello world.

Once you have the command line figured out you should be set.

If you have any questions on how to set up just ask here, because i realize i'm not super specific. and google/news group search is your friend :-)

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:18:49 +0000 (UTC), IkeaTheSofa wrote:

> Kris <Kris_member@pathlink.com> wrote in news:cveefb$1ots$1@digitaldaemon.com:
> 
>> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>>> 
>>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)
>>>
>>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
>> 
>> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
>> 
>> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
>> 
> 
> I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

Okay, I'll have a go. BTW, I use Crimson too. Sometimes Code-Genie, and sometimes EmEditor, depending on the task at hand. No one editor ever seems good enough to do everything I want.

Do you understand the Windows (DOS) PATH concept? If not, it is one of a few 'environment variables' that you can define for your system. The PATH variable contains a list of folders where Windows will look in to find a program that you need to run.

On Windows XP...
1) Right-click on the "My Computer" icon and select "Properties" from the
popup menu.
2) Select the "Advanced" tab
3) Click on the "Environment Variables" button near the bottom of the
window. This will show you two lists of variables - user ones and system
ones.
4a) If you can see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on that then
press the "Edit" button.
4b) If you cannot see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on the
"New" button.
5) You will see an editbox for Variable name. Make sure this is "PATH".
6) You will see an editbox for the Variable's value. If this already
has stuff in it, look thru it to see if it mention's where you installed
DMD to. I believe in your case it is "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin".
7) If it has both "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" and "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" there you are
okay and can close these windows now. Otherwise move the cursor to the end
of the current list of folders (in the value box), and add this ...
  ";C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin;C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin"

**NOTICE** the semicolon at the beginning of this new entry and the one in
between the two paths.
8) Now press the various "Ok" buttons to save your results.

To test this, start up a new command window. (Press the green "start" button and select "Run...", enter in "cmd" and press "Ok".)

When the prompt comes up, change folders to "C:\"  (type in "cd c:\")
Now type in "dmd".  List show display the dmd usage info.
Now type in "link". This should display the OptLink copyright info.

To compile your program, go to the folder your source code is in. For example, if you saved it in "C:\My Projects\D\" you would type in "cd c:\my projects\d"

If you called your program "dtest.d" (you must end it in ".d" btw), type in "dmd dtest"

This will compile and link your test program. To run your program, type in "dtest"

There, that'll do for now.

-- 
Derek
Melbourne, Australia
22/02/2005 4:26:09 PM

Chris Sauls <ibisbasenji@gmail.com> wrote in news:cvefuh$1qqn$1@digitaldaemon.com:

> Its not bad at all once you get used to it.  You might want to check: http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?D__Tutorial
> 
> And... you have an IDE for PHP??  Interesting... I always just used EditPlus.  (Though I might be switching to ConTEXT now.)  I'm wondering what an IDE for PHP would provide?
> 
> -- Chris S

Thanks for your response Chris. I use PHP Designer 2005. I have apache and php installed as well as mysql. Php designer has the standard syntex highlighting. Also in php designer you can specify your php.exe and use it run and debugg your code (when i say debug it just tells you what line in your code is wrong and possibly why) and it outputs what you file would look like on a webserver in a window in the app.

Quite welcome.  And that PHP Designer app does sound interesting.  That ability to call php.exe could actually be useful for some of those days where I'm coding in my bedroom with the real server sitting halfway across town.  :)

-- Chris S

IkeaTheSofa wrote:
> Thanks for your response Chris. I use PHP Designer 2005. I have apache and php installed as well as mysql. Php designer has the standard syntex highlighting. Also in php designer you can specify your php.exe and use it run and debugg your code (when i say debug it just tells you what line in your code is wrong and possibly why) and it outputs what you file would look like on a webserver in a window in the app.
> 

pragma <pragma_member@pathlink.com> wrote in news:cveftv$1r2n$1@digitaldaemon.com:

> In article <Xns9604D616744DAikeathesofaAThotmail@63.105.9.61>, IkeaTheSofa says...
>>
>>C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi; Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH
>>
>>C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>
>>
>>... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in general)?  I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a different issue.
>>
> 
> Don't feel embarassed by this, but the D compiler isn't the entire distribution. Technically, it relies on the DMC backend to get the linking and .exe building accomplished.
> 
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dcompiler.html
> 
> Just download the "linker and utilities" from the page and install them on your system.  The trick is to unzip them into a folder that sits *next to* your dmd folder.
> 
> (using your file layout garnered from above)
> c:\D\dmd\dmd\  <--- your current dmd installation
> c:\D\dmd\dm\ <--- where the linker and utilities should go
> 
> This way the path "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe"  will actually run "link.exe" to compose an exe.
> 
> You mentioned that line-command compilation was a new thing to you. Granted, it's easy to think of working outside of an IDE a bit "old fashioned" but its really a power-user's interface (well from a unix/linux perspective anyway) and anything but out-moded.  As has been mentioned, D is anything but a beginners tool at this point, so anything you master now with D will place you on the inside track for later (IMO).
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> - EricAnderton at yahoo

Eric thanks so much for your help! Yeehaw! I finally got the compiler to compile the hello.d program after getting the files you talked about in the right place. I think this is the start of a beautiful thing (me and D). Thank you again.