I am a Newbie in every since of the word when it comes to programming!  I would love to develop a solid foundation with a reliable compiler.  Having read a few newsgroup postings on C++, it's apparent that the language leaves much to be desired. Then I stumble onto D which promises? many improvements over C++.  How best should a "complete" novice approach this language and where would one turn for help when necessary.  Additionally, I noticed that current version of D available is an alpha version that wasn't intended for use beyond 1999. Is there a beta version intended for the near future?

Andrew

"Anderw" <crxace13@comcast.net> wrote in message news:ad9kvv$1c1n$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> I am a Newbie in every since of the word when it comes to programming!  I would love to develop a solid foundation with a reliable compiler.  Having read a few newsgroup postings on C++, it's apparent that the language
leaves
> much to be desired. Then I stumble onto D which promises? many
improvements
> over C++.  How best should a "complete" novice approach this language and where would one turn for help when necessary.

While D is a far better language to learn on than C++, there are currently a river of helpful books and materials to teach you C++, and very little for D beyond this newsgroup.

>  Additionally, I noticed that
> current version of D available is an alpha version that wasn't intended
for
> use beyond 1999. Is there a beta version intended for the near future?

I don't know of any y2k bugs in the compiler, but all that proves is the test suite is inadequate <g>.

> >  Additionally, I noticed that
> > current version of D available is an alpha version that wasn't intended
> for
> > use beyond 1999. Is there a beta version intended for the near future?
>
> I don't know of any y2k bugs in the compiler, but all that proves is the test suite is inadequate <g>.
>
I'm not implying that the compiler has y2k bugs. I'm simply observing a statement made by the license that accompanies the compiler which reads as follows:

"The Software is not generally available software. It as not undergone testing and may contain errors. The Software was not designed to operate after December 31, 1999." . . .

The full document is attached!

"Anderw" <crxace13@comcast.net> wrote in message news:ad9rol$1m40$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > >  Additionally, I noticed that
> > > current version of D available is an alpha version that wasn't
intended
> > for
> > > use beyond 1999. Is there a beta version intended for the near future?
> >
> > I don't know of any y2k bugs in the compiler, but all that proves is the test suite is inadequate <g>.
> >
> I'm not implying that the compiler has y2k bugs. I'm simply observing a statement made by the license that accompanies the compiler which reads as follows:
>
> "The Software is not generally available software. It as not undergone testing and may contain errors. The Software was not designed to operate after December 31, 1999." . . .
>
> The full document is attached!

It's just a disclaimer. If it bothers you, don't use it!

> It's just a disclaimer. If it bothers you, don't use it!
>

Walter: please be assured I had no intentions of insulting your ego or hurt your pride in any way.  I am simply enthused about starting out programming with the best tool available and am seeking some professional opinions on the likelihood of being successful if I start with this language.

Please stop attacking me on such trivial details. If you think I am a moron, which you obviously do, just ignore my postings, but thus far you have not helped in any way. Just be happy that you were able to create something that a complete novice is interested in learning over a more established language.

Thank you in advance!

I do not want to detract your attention from the user-friendly ness of D but perhaps a learning language such as Basic (Qbasic, Visual Basic) would be more adequate to your needs. The disadvantage of basic is that It's more difficult to do advanced things in it.

On the other hand you can probably pick up a C++ book and use that to learn D, though you won't find a D book. You could use this news group to fingure out the differnces. Furthermore many people have learnt C before tackling C++.

"Andrew" <crxace13@comcast.net> wrote in message news:adadnt$a86$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > It's just a disclaimer. If it bothers you, don't use it!
> >
>
> Walter: please be assured I had no intentions of insulting your ego or
hurt
> your pride in any way.  I am simply enthused about starting out
programming
> with the best tool available and am seeking some professional opinions on the likelihood of being successful if I start with this language.
>
> Please stop attacking me on such trivial details. If you think I am a
moron,
> which you obviously do, just ignore my postings, but thus far you have not helped in any way. Just be happy that you were able to create something
that
> a complete novice is interested in learning over a more established language.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
>
>

anderson wrote:

> I do not want to detract your attention from the user-friendly ness of D but perhaps a learning language such as Basic (Qbasic, Visual Basic) would be more adequate to your needs. The disadvantage of basic is that It's more difficult to do advanced things in it.

Ewwww. No. To give a quote...

"It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students
that have had prior exposure to BASIC; as potential programmers they are
mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
-Dijkstra

(having said that however I must note that I first learned to programme in BASIC on the ZX Spectrum many many years ago,  though I have been doing mostly assembler, oomic, C and java since then).

> On the other hand you can probably pick up a C++ book and use that to learn D, though you won't find a D book. You could use this news group to fingure out the differnces. Furthermore many people have learnt C before tackling C++.

As you, Andrew, are a beginner I would advise learning either C or Java. By the time you have got the syntax and conventions fully understood (2 to 8 months depending on your level of experience, time put into learning and practice, etcetera), then D should be in Beta version (hopefully) and the transition to the new syntax should be relatively painless.

Of course you could try learning with D but at the moment it is still a bit of a moving target - though I would expect few, if any, major changes at this point.

> "Andrew" <crxace13@comcast.net> wrote in message news:adadnt$a86$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> > It's just a disclaimer. If it bothers you, don't use it!
>> >
>>
>> Walter: please be assured I had no intentions of insulting your ego or hurt your pride in any way.  I am simply enthused about starting out programming with the best tool available and am seeking some professional opinions on the likelihood of being successful if I start with this language.

I think it was a case of ask a silly question ...
In my opinion the license looks as if it has been tacked on from something
else just due to the need for a licence - most of the documentation around
the D project needs updating,  and the licence appears to be one of the
main things (I am surprised to find anyone bothering to read the license
anyway) - the trouble is we are here to express our opinions in the design
of the D programming language, documentation and licencing is rather a side
issue compared to getting a good working compiler.

>> Please stop attacking me on such trivial details. If you think I am a
>> moron, which you obviously do, just ignore my postings, but thus
>> far you have not helped in any way. Just be happy that you were
>> able to create something that a complete novice is interested in
>> learning over a more established language.

If you are going to post on a usenet style news group you are bound to get flamed every now and then, but compared to others this group is fairly benign - just try posting something off topic in comp.lang.c for an unfriendly response :-)

The problem with learning D without prior knowledge of other programming languages is that there is a lack of documentation, if you want to go ahead an learn it that is good.  However,  the documentation is sometimes inconsistant with the compiler - I am sure that if you have any queries about the language itself the people in this group will help,  and an overview of errors and poorly explained details in the documentation from someone without programming experience, I believe, would be helpful.  When you have been programming for many years many of these things seem obvious, though that is no always so for a novice.

C 2002/6/1

And just to illustrate my point here is an example of bad/silly documentation from a company which has been around long enough to know better...


"The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to constants;
instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every appearance, the
variable PI can be given that value with a DATA statement and used instead
of the longer form of the constant.
This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change."
- FORTRAN manual for Xerox computers


'should the value of pi change' - yes, like that is really going to happen :-)


C 2002/6/1

> 
> 
> It's just a disclaimer. If it bothers you, don't use it!
> 
> 


Or just set your computers clock back ;-)

"C.R.Chafer" <blackmarlin@nospam.asean-mail.com> wrote in message news:adapdp$nvt$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> "The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to constants;
> instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every appearance, the
> variable PI can be given that value with a DATA statement and used instead
> of the longer form of the constant.
> This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi
change."
> - FORTRAN manual for Xerox computers
>
> 'should the value of pi change' - yes, like that is really going to happen :-)

Oh, I think that is just a little joke inserted in by the manual writer to see if his boss was proofreading it <g>. In a job I had many years ago, I wrote a 300 step test procedure for a mechanical device. The last step was "now it's miller time". My boss complained about it, I countered by saying I was just checking that the proofreader was doing his job <g>.